is racism common in Toronto?

[jenny_zhang]

Clubs in vancouver are separated by race. for example, the majority of azns stick with going to specific clubs, while people of different ethnicity go to another.

What a mosaic multicultural melting pot, huh.

 

[doady]

Personally, the only place in Canada I have victim of harassment due to my race was in Quebec, and it doesn't surprise me that small towns there have been instituting "code of conducts" for immigrants, such as prohibiting the stoning of women.

I think racism is strong in the rest of Canada as well, but at least here in Toronto is far less overt and out in the open than in small-town Quebec. And it is just not whites here that are racists, I know of an example of where are South Asians being favoured for employment just because the recruiter himself is South Asian.

Bottom line is, don't expect to be treat fairly, no matter where you live.

In Mississauga, there's actually a lot of segregation and totally different racial communities, or at least from what I've seen. You go down one street, and it's totally Somali. Walk down a block, and suddenly you're in an Indian community. One more and you're in a Chinese one. Quite interesting imo.

I don't think Mississauga is like that at all.

 

[MG22]

My professors at school often talk about Canada's silent racism: how Canadians put on this public facade to embrace the multiculturalism the government, etc seems to shamelessly promote as our identity when, in fact, many Canadians are closeted racist, to varying degrees. I'm not well versed on this subject so I won't go on, but I find it an interesting topic. This idea of 'silent racism' is something very difficult to measure and therefore can be easily argued either way (there's nothing to measure, really).

For myself, growing up in Northern Ontario, moving to Toronto and living throughout the city and its suburbs, I feel as if Toronto is one of the more accepting, if not the most accepting, cities in Canada when it comes to multi-cultures. However, my experience in the 905, Oakville and Mississauga in particular, does not match the acceptance I feel in Toronto. For example, I go to UTM and find that it's fairly obvious that peoples of one ethnicity, religion, etc seem to "hang out" with one another. A friend of mine at school is from Kenya, has lived all over the world, and is always complaining about her friends in Canada of Kenyan descent and how they don't like that she hangs out with non-Kenyan people like me. She says this idea of sticking to one's culture/ethnicity/nationalism is odd and does not seem to be prominent in European nations (her words, not mine). Likewise, another individual at my school mentioned that when she was in a interacial relationship she felt her and her husband were discriminated because of his dark coloured skin on occassion when out in public. It just makes me wonder how racist-free Toronto and area really is. Looks can be deceiving.

However, in support of the "groupings" at UTM, it's fair to note that many students: 1) go to highschool together, therefore hang out with their highschool friends; 2) know each other from church/mosque/religious groups and these are who they spend most of their time with (thus making most of their friends of the same religion/culture). Still I do not see as much interracial mingling as one would suspect in such a diverse and vibrant are. This may not be the same for the DT/Scarborough campuses.

 

[sangcho1989]

i dont understand why I had the preconception that Toronto is full of violence, as seen on TV. Then again, Vancouver is known to be one of the most dangerous cities in Canada and Ive lived there in peace for two years.

 

[sangcho1989]

Personally, the only place in Canada I have victim of harassment due to my race was in Quebec, and it doesn't surprise me that small towns there have been instituting "code of conducts" for immigrants, such as prohibiting the stoning of women.
.

code of conduct which prohibits the stoning of women seems a bit overrated. i thought stoning people ended a hundred years ago.

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

This may not be the same for the DT/Scarborough campuses.

Having worked at UTSC for four years, I can tell you that it's probably even *more* separated along ethnic lines than UTM, certainly moreso than the downtown campus. I was pretty astonished at this when I first worked there, and became more and more depressed and angry at it by the time I left. I used to joke to people that Soweto c. 1976 was a model of cultural integration by comparison.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Personally, the only place in Canada I have victim of harassment due to my race was in Quebec, and it doesn't surprise me that small towns there have been instituting "code of conducts" for immigrants, such as prohibiting the stoning of women.

so stoning women was okay in those towns up until the immigrants came to live there?


they should really make a law against dropping anvils from heights onto people. it's only a matter of time before those cartoon characters i saw on TV move into town.

 

[Second_in_pie]

My professors at school often talk about Canada's silent racism: how Canadians put on this public facade to embrace the multiculturalism the government, etc seems to shamelessly promote as our identity when, in fact, many Canadians are closeted racist, to varying degrees. I'm not well versed on this subject so I won't go on, but I find it an interesting topic. This idea of 'silent racism' is something very difficult to measure and therefore can be easily argued either way (there's nothing to measure, really).

I can accept that there's more racism in Canada than what's seen on the surface, but that's true for any country. Canada might have more of a degree of that than other countries, but I'd only think it's because the overwhelming majority favours multiculturalism and embraces people of other races and so people are pressured into appearing to feel the same. In places like the US or Great Britain, there's a lot more openness against discrimination in many areas, and you see more people come out about it.

For myself, growing up in Northern Ontario, moving to Toronto and living throughout the city and its suburbs, I feel as if Toronto is one of the more accepting, if not the most accepting, cities in Canada when it comes to multi-cultures. However, my experience in the 905, Oakville and Mississauga in particular, does not match the acceptance I feel in Toronto. For example, I go to UTM and find that it's fairly obvious that peoples of one ethnicity, religion, etc seem to "hang out" with one another. A friend of mine at school is from Kenya, has lived all over the world, and is always complaining about her friends in Canada of Kenyan descent and how they don't like that she hangs out with non-Kenyan people like me. She says this idea of sticking to one's culture/ethnicity/nationalism is odd and does not seem to be prominent in European nations (her words, not mine). Likewise, another individual at my school mentioned that when she was in a interacial relationship she felt her and her husband were discriminated because of his dark coloured skin on occassion when out in public. It just makes me wonder how racist-free Toronto and area really is. Looks can be deceiving.

I think that that's not really the case. You'll get some isolated incidents where you get some discrimination, but I think it's very light here.
I remember in school, people were just people, race was a totally separate thing and more of an interesting characteristic than an actual issue. We all got made fun of once in a while, but there weren't any times I could think of that it was actually serious. Everybody sort of embraced eachother's culture, and it really mixed together. There weren't any cultural or ethnic cliques, nor was there any real cultural pressure. I'm sure that's not what happens in every other part of the GTA, but by what I've heard from people I know, there are many places where there's a similar effect.

The feeling I get is that most European nations are accepting of different ethnicities, but they'll always be different. For the most part, they're proud of their history and heritage and while they fully accept immigrants, they're not really part of the inner circle.

I'd use a different word than "interesting". And I think that happens everywhere in Toronto. Surely you've noticed that Markham has practically become a Chinese district, Brampton and Indian one. This is what we don't mention when we're raving at how "multicultural" we are.

This is kind of true, but I think there's really a lot more cultural mix than "just chinese" or "just indian." There's really a huge mix of cultures in both those areas (though I know Markham far better,) and they really blend together as seamlessly as I could imagine. I giving things one more generation would really complete the picture, but I don't think there's really any better example in the world, except Vancouver and possibly Sydney.

 

[MG22]

/\ Fiendish Librarian:

Yeah, I had assumed that the UTSC was similar, if not worse than UTM. As a student who has attended another post-secondary school and made friends with people of many cultures, religions, and national backgrounds, I found it odd and angering that UTM - part of the almighty U of T persona, albeit a satellite campus (insert sarcasm) - was so segregated. Sad to see it's like that in Scarborough, too. Anyone know what it's like DT?

Still, it must be said that I've been told over and over again by my TAs/ Professors that students at UTM typically out perform their campus counterparts when it comes to academics. I guess that's because there's nothing to do in Mississauga or the West part of the GTA except for study .. oh and possibly be racist.

 

[lordmandeep]

Many and perhaps most on this board have secret racist feelings deep inside them.
I will admit that I have some, like when my neighbors who were black were having parties every weekend till 1am and were very loud and crazy. Of course I would be angry at anyone who would do that, but I was very angry towards them and I would say race played a part.

However, I have not been met with racism right in my face since grade 8.

I remember a story of my Indian friend who looks rather mixed (Greek maybe) who went into to a Grocery Store in Brampton and some old white employee went to him and said "damn Indian are taking over, Carry On Proud SON!!"

My friend starting laughing, and when it comes to old people being racist, we go okay whatever, he is just old.

My grandmother is afraid of young black men, terribly afraid. However when she sits on front of the house, she smiles and says hello to any who walk by.

Among many people racism is mostly greatly focused on Blacks greatly. Even really educated "sophisticated" people have some sort of resentment against Black Males.

 

[MG22]

I think that that's not really the case. You'll get some isolated incidents where you get some discrimination, but I think it's very light here.
I remember in school, people were just people, race was a totally separate thing and more of an interesting characteristic than an actual issue. We all got made fun of once in a while, but there weren't any times I could think of that it was actually serious. Everybody sort of embraced eachother's culture, and it really mixed together. There weren't any cultural or ethnic cliques, nor was there any real cultural pressure. I'm sure that's not what happens in every other part of the GTA, but by what I've heard from people I know, there are many places where there's a similar effect.


I don't know. I was discussing this specifically in regards to my campus at of U of T (except in the instance of my friend who was married). I attended Sheridan College for two years and found the campus community meshed very well. From my time there I gained friends of varying backgrounds who have taught me a lot about religions/cultures that I was at one time very ignorant of.

At UTM, however, this doesn't really happen. It's very segregated in comparison to Sheridan. My peers who have attended other post-secondary schools in the area seem to agree with me about this. It's a very odd thing and I really don't think anyone can fully understand the segregation unless you attend the UTM campus. But, maybe you do, and if that's the case let me know your specific view of this! Anyway, I appreciate your opinion and always look forward to rebuttals and differing perspectives that contradict my own ... why else would I spend so much time at U of T?

Alas, back to homework ...

 

[lordmandeep]

Ryerson was a great experience.

Everyone I knew made a friend of a different colour. Of course you still had your old "high school ethno-group" around but everyone branched out made friends.

 

[Second_in_pie]

EDIT:

Many and perhaps most on this board have secret racist feelings deep inside them.
I will admit that I have some, like when my neighbors who were black were having parties every weekend till 1am and were very loud and crazy. Of course I would be angry at anyone who would do that, but I was very angry towards them and I would say race played a part.

However, I have not been met with racism right in my face since grade 8.

I remember a story of my Indian friend who looks rather mixed (Greek maybe) who went into to a Grocery Store in Brampton and some old white employee went to him and said "damn Indian are taking over, Carry On Proud SON!!"

My friend starting laughing, and when it comes to old people being racist, we go okay whatever, he is just old.

My grandmother is afraid of young black men, terribly afraid. However when she sits on front of the house, she smiles and says hello to any who walk by.

Among many people racism is mostly greatly focused on Blacks greatly. Even really educated "sophisticated" people have some sort of resentment against Black Males.

I think that's certainly true. There is an obvious idea that young black men are something to be afraid of. But I think that's because a large number of young black men I've seen wear their pants halfway to their knees, hang out in large, intimidating groups, and talk and act like they're about to punch your face in. Those people, I make a point to stay away from, whether they're black, white, hispanic or indian.

And that scary looking but otherwise totally normal black person (i.e. not straight up) walking down the street that I stay away from would get the same reaction from me if he was white and had that same type of bouncer-like walk.
I think that in general, these people make subconscious overgeneralizations. They see so many black people running around like they're about to rob a liquor store that they say they're afraid of young black people, but they really know that if they see someone who looks like they could fit into society they wouldn't have any fears of them.

I can't advocate for everyone, but I think that's what is really going on.

 

[jenny_zhang]

Having worked at UTSC for four years, I can tell you that it's probably even *more* separated along ethnic lines than UTM, certainly moreso than the downtown campus. I was pretty astonished at this when I first worked there, and became more and more depressed and angry at it by the time I left. I used to joke to people that Soweto c. 1976 was a model of cultural integration by comparison.

The reason is because UTSC is like a high school - everyone commutes and making friends is very, very hard. So people fall back on the easy commonality - ethnicity - as a way to make friends. Also, don't blame the students entirely. Immigrant families do not create an atmosphere at home that is conductive to cross-cultural friendships/relationships. I'm sorry but that's just the truth for a lot of immigrants. Canadians (white) seem to have gone through their phase of "overcoming" racism and now they have ideas such as "don't stereotype, treat people as individuals", immigrants don't have this. The idea of not thinking about people in terms of groups, like race, doesn't occur to most of us.

I've also been downtown and to York, and while cultural integration isn't exactly the norm, it exists more than UTSC or UTM. When I walk down York's lanes, I can actually see people interacting with people of different ethnicity. It's still not as much as groups of Asians or South Asians or Whites, but it exists, at least.

because the overwhelming majority favours multiculturalism and embraces people of other races and so people are pressured into appearing to feel the same.

The overwhelming majority does not support multiculturalism. The Globe and Mail did a poll and found 80% of respondents (the total poll had a bout 10,000 sample) favored integration over multiculturalism.

Some people confuse multiculturalism with diversity. A lot of people might have no problem with diversity and immigration, but multiculturalism is another beast.

I remember in school, people were just people, race was a totally separate thing and more of an interesting characteristic than an actual issue.

I totally agree, but I feel this disintegrates as I got older. In high school I do think ethnic cliques started to form. However I really appreciate the friendships and interactions in high school which were very much beyond race as an issue, and wonder where it all went when I got to university.

The feeling I get is that most European nations are accepting of different ethnicities, but they'll always be different.

I completely, completely disagree with this. To me Europe is a hotbed of racism in a way Canadians can't even imagine. I've visited Europe and felt more xenophobia there in one week than in my entire life living in Canada. And I have a feeling it would be a lot worse for other groups, like Muslims.

There's really a huge mix of cultures in both those areas (though I know Markham far better,) and they really blend together as seamlessly as I could imagine.

I've also lived in Markham, and my parents live there now, and I feel very different. When you're Chinese in Markham, you can almost live your entire life and barely interact with anyone who isn't Chinese. You might think I'm exaggerating but that's basically the life my parents live. I mean they're practically living in China.

 

[lordmandeep]

Lol in France and in the Netherlands there is a mini civil war going on between Muslims and the rest of society.


You have huge sections on the outskirts of Paris which are just as bad as the worst Ghettos in American Cities.

The French social culture and the Government of France are racist, no denying that.