is racism common in Toronto?

[jenny_zhang]

Well there is a certain ethnic group who I truly feel are over represented in the bad-driver category. And there is another ethnic group who goes everywhere with mom, dad, 12 kids, and grandma in tow. If you ever work in customer service industry you will notice these little idiosyncrasies...

Lovely. So this is where we're going to go with our discussion now?

 

[Admiral Beez]

but you got something wrong. there's no such thing as an arab race, white race, etc. the race is human.

No, human is our species, also known as Homo sapiens.

You can argue that race as it's commonly or historically been used is not valid, and that's fine, but human is not a race anymore than canine is a race.

 

[Admiral Beez]

evolutionary science and genetics is a great way to combat racism. it knows that there is more genetic difference between members of the same family than there is difference between haplogroups. if you were to compare what makes one person have light skin and another person have dark skin and other traits like hair, etc. the genetic code that makes these differences is far less. the genetic code differences between a father and daughter is much greater.

Actually your position doesn't combat what we traditionally call racism, since in your view there can be no accusations of racism. Imagine if someone printed pamphlets that said black people were criminals or the Jews were evil, etc. You wouldn't be able to charge them with race based hate speech. Heck, you'd have to re-write laws against hate speech altogether since if you can't claim that black people, for example, are an identifiable group that can be targeted, how do you arrest the guy with the pamphlet?

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

No, human is our species, also known as Homo sapiens.

You can argue that race as it's commonly or historically been used is not valid, and that's fine, but human is not a race anymore than canine is a race.

that's what i was implying. some people think different groups of people are different subspecies (race) of H. sapiens.

Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Primates
Family: Hominidae
Subfamily: Homininae
Tribe: Hominini
Genus: Homo
Species: H. sapiens
Subspecies: H. s. sapiens <--- all modern humans is the race. we are also everything else on the list. at one point in time there were multiple subspecies of the species but we are the only subspecies of the species that is currently alive.

so we're both correct. all humans alive today are a race (subspecies) and also a species.

so all "homo sapiens sapiens" are "homo sapiens" but not all "homo sapiens" are "homo sapiens sapiens".

 

[JayBee]

...and this is why I get so angry with my community (the Black community) because we label everything as racism.

Interesting thread, but I'd like to reply here...

It annoys me that many people seem to have this mindset. Also commical how some blacks have adopted this mindset as well. "Blacks are always crying about racism". I don't think there's a group more hated than blacks. I also don't think there is an individual more feared and hated than the black male. We now live in a culture where racism is so ingrained in our society that we don't even know what is and isn't racist.

It also annoys me how the few black men who commit crimes and acts of violence somehow overshadow the many of us who are good, upstanding members of society. I guess we don't count and we're the exception. LOL. That type of mentality has to change. I don't think it ever will.

Now,with that said, there are blacks and members of other races who will take the easy way out and let systemic and/or overtracism own them and as a result not try to make a better life for themselves. They give up. That anoys me. I am a black male who has not let racism against myself and my people get me down or even discourage me. But to hear people say that there's no racism is laughable. It's not overt, yes, people aren't being lynched, no crosses being burned, etc. But there's a LOT of it going on behind the scenes. If you decide to ignore it then you are part of the problem.

I think we are all prejudice in some way...and I think a lot of you are confusing prejudice with racism. Racism is prejudice+power... But back to my point....these prejudice thoughts subconciously come into play during our every day lives, and influence what we do and how we think.

Yes, Toronto has pockets of racism, so does everywhere else. To say racism doesn't exist is a very dangerous move.

I think Race Relations should be a mandatory highschool course. We have all these cultures living together that don't know jack about each other besides what they see on tv.

Hope I didn't offend anybody

 

[JayBee]

I haven't read the entire thread so don't know what has been said before but what do you mean by "victimized"? If you mean that you don't believe any group has been victims of racism, then there are ample studies, reports and surveys that point to the contrary.

There's the report from IPSOS/Reid in 2005 that clearly indicates racism is alive and well today.

There's the 2007 report from the Canadian Centre of Policy Alternatives that concludes "Racism persists in Canada, and it is impeding people of colour from entering the labour market at a pace—and place—commensurate with their skills."

There's a Racial Tolerance Report from Sun Media that clearly points to evidence of racism against particular groups.

There's a UofT study that finds racism / discrimination against visible minorities as report in the Toronto Star.

There's the York University study as report in the Star that people are far more tolerant of bigotry than they might express.

And I can go on... but in this brief search, I could not find one study that supports your view. I'm not saying that racism isn't better today than, say, in 1979, but we are far from where you seem to think we are and anyone who thinks just because there are more visible minorities today than yesterday and therefore racism/discrimination/prejudice against minority groups is licked needs to do a reality check.

Again, people don't like to talk about racism. If they can somehow ignore it, it doesn't exist. We have such a long way to go.

 

[drone]

Like others have said...there is not out right racism. But, there is a subtle feel of discrimination everywhere in the world if you are not of the majority.
Where I get confused is all the rules that we are to follow to not be tagged as a racist. In recent months there is a large push in many work places to become "diverse". We are to attend diversity training, a total of 24 hours or 3 sessions. We have been given a list of terms we cannot use. Example, I am not permitted to ask any co-workers where they are from. I can't use certain other words that are seen as "offensive". I can't even ask someone if they are female or male. I know this sounds weird, but, in my line of work, there are times when a female employee is needed to serve a female client. I cannot ASSUME that an employee is female or male now, so, I can't make that call. This is crazy. In many of the sessions we were told that reverse racism does not exist. There is such a thing as being overlly politically correct.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Again, people don't like to talk about racism. If they can somehow ignore it, it doesn't exist.

Ah, but if there is no such thing a race, then there can be no racism.

 

[prosperegal]

I think Race Relations should be a mandatory highschool course. We have all these cultures living together that don't know jack about each other besides what they see on tv.

Hope I didn't offend anybody

Honestly, how do you teach race relations? You don't want to turn it into a huge cultural sensitivity class where assumptions are taught. I don't want any kid taking a class where teachers tell them that some cultures do things this way, while others do not. They'll end up like an accquaitance of mine who thought I was trying to give up my culture because I'm going to wear white to my wedding (white is actually a colour of mourning in Chinese culture, but brides have been wearing white since the 1950s or so).

 

[kettal]

Honestly, how do you teach race relations? You don't want to turn it into a huge cultural sensitivity class where assumptions are taught.

You host a lunch for the students, and serve grape soda, fried chicken, and watermelons. Whoever mentions anything racist gets caned.

 

[drone]

It's obvious from the post above that Yes!

Yes. we cane teach race relations

 

[Tewder]

You host a lunch for the students, and serve grape soda, fried chicken, and watermelons. Whoever mentions anything racist gets caned.

Grape soda is a black thing? Who knew?? Maybe we do need those race sensitivity classes after all.

Honestly, how do you teach race relations?

You don't. Not to get caught up on semantics (then again, why not) but our school system should be focusing on basic 'human' relations, ethics and so on. This is all that's needed here. We're all human, sharing the same most basic needs, impulses and feelings etc. The rest is all cultural 'stuff'. Cultural practices and beliefs are either acceptable in Canada (that which doesn't conflict with charter principles) or not (that which does). Beyond this all citizens enjoy the rights and freedoms to express themselves culturally in a way that makes sense to them (within reason of the charter again) and recourse to the law when infringements on those rights present themselves. This perspective doesn't only address issues of race either, but issues of sexism, misogyny, and homophobia etc. too.

These are the messages that should be reinforced in schools. Sprinkle in a good dose of assimilationist (integrationist if you prefer) nation-unifying mythology surrounding respect for diversity, belief in tolerance, right of law, peace order and good government, etc. etc. and you've got the right ingredients for baking good Canadians of all backgrounds, races and religions.

 

[JayBee]

Honestly, how do you teach race relations? You don't want to turn it into a huge cultural sensitivity class where assumptions are taught. I don't want any kid taking a class where teachers tell them that some cultures do things this way, while others do not. They'll end up like an accquaitance of mine who thought I was trying to give up my culture because I'm going to wear white to my wedding (white is actually a colour of mourning in Chinese culture, but brides have been wearing white since the 1950s or so).

What's wrong with teaching people about different cultures?

 

[Second_in_pie]

You host a lunch for the students, and serve grape soda, fried chicken, and watermelons. Whoever mentions anything racist gets caned.

LOL!

I disagree with the idea the people need to be taught things about different races. First of all, I think there's a very small demographic of children in the GTA now (perhaps aside from Southern Etobicoke and southern Halton) that are relatively unexposed to multiculturalism. And it's much better to make a cultural/racial mistake, and then have someone correct you, than to have someone "teach you" cultural/racial correctness. First of all, your teacher could have some biases, or could just be incorrect. Second, it's much easier to learn from mistakes than without them. Third, why would you make culture a class? Culture (and multiculture) is something that needs to be experienced. With multiculturalism, it just alienates people even more if they're going to study it, or be taught it as a school-like experience.

But I think that for the most part, the GTA really is quite multicultural and racism-free. That'll only become more apparent when the next generation comes around. There's a few sensitive areas that should be sorted out, but I think that for the most part, they're part of a broader issue that's different from racism.

 

[JayBee]

LOL!

I disagree with the idea the people need to be taught things about different races. First of all, I think there's a very small demographic of children in the GTA now (perhaps aside from Southern Etobicoke and southern Halton) that are relatively unexposed to multiculturalism. And it's much better to make a cultural/racial mistake, and then have someone correct you, than to have someone "teach you" cultural/racial correctness. First of all, your teacher could have some biases, or could just be incorrect. Second, it's much easier to learn from mistakes than without them. Third, why would you make culture a class? Culture (and multiculture) is something that needs to be experienced. With multiculturalism, it just alienates people even more if they're going to study it, or be taught it as a school-like experience.

But I think that for the most part, the GTA really is quite multicultural and racism-free. That'll only become more apparent when the next generation comes around. There's a few sensitive areas that should be sorted out, but I think that for the most part, they're part of a broader issue that's different from racism.

How some can seriously believe this is beyond me.