I went ahead and voted for Rob Ford today

[nfitz]

Ford would be good because he wouldn't let the unions walk all over him (unlike Miller)....aside from that, his platform is garbage.

That doesn't even make sense. A lot of the discontent with Miller seems to be that he wouldn't let the unions walk all over him by triggering last year's strike and extracting union concessions instead of settling early.

Ford is a wet dream for most of the unions, with his promises of essential service and increased policing.

He'd let the downtown rot.

Why would anyone want the downtown to rot?

 

[Calrissian]

... and hire more bus drivers to replace the higher capacity streetcars he's going to remove.
.

Although, not sure he's connected the dots on this one, he isn't aware, or cares, that to replace a streetcar for capacity, you'd need 2 - 3 buses. In fairness to him, he's come out to say that if he can't redirect funds from TC or cancel the streetcar order (for costly penalties) he basically shrugged his shoulders and said he'd just leave things as is.. this guy has a vision!

 

[Asterix]

Although, not sure he's connected the dots on this one, he isn't aware, or cares, that to replace a streetcar for capacity, you'd need 2 - 3 buses.

True enough. But what does it say about a candidate when they haven't done such elementary connecting of the dots?

 

[Parsnips]

That doesn't even make sense. A lot of the discontent with Miller seems to be that he wouldn't let the unions walk all over him by triggering last year's strike and extracting union concessions instead of settling early.

Over his term we've seen drastic salary increases, and the settlement with the garbage strike was a joke- Miller got hardly close to what he wanted. And mind you, Ford wants to scrap the fair wage policy.

Why would anyone want the downtown to rot?

A guy who lives in the suburbs and would rather tax cuts than a nice downtown would want that...

 

[jn_12]

Over his term we've seen drastic salary increases, and the settlement with the garbage strike was a joke- Miller got hardly close to what he wanted. And mind you, Ford wants to scrap the fair wage policy.

Any proof that salaries have increased drastically? And by drastically, I mean well beyond any sort of reasonable level.
Also, what's wrong with the fair wage policy? Shouldn't we be striving for everyone to make a fair wage rather than having a race to the bottom? Fair wages provide people with the ability to spend more, which therefore helps business, creates more tax revenue, etc. We're a rich country and we shouldn't accept anything less.

 

[CN Tower]

A lot of vitriol from the OP. I suspect more related to his personal challenges than his distorted perception of Toronto as a city in decline.

Here's my take though, from Saturday's Globe, Derek DeCloet:

Take the city of Toronto as an example. Here is the rate of increase in its spending, year by year, from 2004 to 2009: 4.8 per cent, 4 per cent, 6.7 per cent, 7.8 per cent, 4.8 per cent, 4.3 per cent (as calculated by the C.D. Howe Institute). The city’s population is growing too, of course, and so are the demands on it, so spending is bound to go up. But the people aren’t blind. They know that their garbage now sits around rotting for two weeks before the city comes around to collect it; they see that easy productivity gains (replacing the grumpy folks who sell subway tokens with machines, for instance) haven’t been done. As the private sector struggles, the public sector satisfies itself with doing less for more – or so it appears.

I don't get it. Look at that obscene growth in spending whirling the city into big deficits. Neither inflation nor population growth come close to accounting for that alarming rate increase in spending!

We need a new leader who is willing to tackle this problem and get our fiscal house in order. I agree Rob Ford is probably making some unrealistic promises with regards to cuts but I like the attrition model of labour cost reduction and I like his message of accountability. Although Rocco would have been my pick with him out of the picture I believe Rob has the right attitude and enough ability to effectuate some meaningful changes to this city.

As an aside, as an avid cyclists myself I actually believe that the city is putting far too much emphasis on cycle lanes and cycle traffic. It is wholly unrealistic in this city and climate. Commerce and industry thrives on vehicle transportation, not bicycles. I enjoy my recreational cycling very much, weather permitting, but I don't support the idea of bike lanes crowding out vehicles. I do however support a heavy investment in subway/light rail infrastructure, budgets permitting. So maybe if Rob is successful in taming the runaway and profligate spending in a couple years he will have the funds to start tunneling new lines again, slowly but surely.

I might add that I actually believe the the OP is a George Smitherman plant intended to covertly scare the undecided into voting for him by sensationalizing much of Rob Ford's campaign. If you analyze the message and ignore the rhetoric and poor delivery I believe Rob is far more moderate than his detractors give him credit for. And if he hopes to effectuate any of the changes that he strives for he has to be willing to compromise a great deal with the new City Council. I find labeling him a bigot and a homophobe and not helpful or wise statements. Brutish and unpolished no doubt but those terms are entirely inaccurate in opinion. Meanwhile George is promising reduced taxes, social programs, waterfront development, Transit City etc. To me that wreaks of more of the spending deficit spending that will not our city or our children well. Time for some accountability at City Hall.

 

[nfitz]

Over his term we've seen drastic salary increases, and the settlement with the garbage strike was a joke- Miller got hardly close to what he wanted. And mind you, Ford wants to scrap the fair wage policy.

The city got the concession on sick days and a much lower increase than any of the other unions. Everyone knew going in that the city wouldn't win without grandfathering, and that is what happened.

A guy who lives in the suburbs and would rather tax cuts than a nice downtown would want that...

I'd think someone in the suburbs near 905, with similar value house prices to 905, would already be very happy at how much lower his tax rates were than 905. My point stands, there doesn't seem to be much sense to these desires.

 

[Parsnips]

Any proof that salaries have increased drastically?

I remember reading it in an article, I'll try to dig it up.

Also, what's wrong with the fair wage policy? Shouldn't we be striving for everyone to make a fair wage rather than having a race to the bottom? Fair wages provide people with the ability to spend more, which therefore helps business, creates more tax revenue, etc. We're a rich country and we shouldn't accept anything less.

Because it costs more to get things in the city done. It's not a fair wage policy, it's an exuberant wage policy. It's the kind of mindset that pays a TTC ticket collector $70 000 a year to sit in a booth, and it might be great for them, but it's costing the possibility of that money going to other things. The wages that are set without the policy are standard, and in line with what everyone else makes.

 

[nfitz]

Here's my take though, from Saturday's Globe, Derek DeCloet:

They know that their garbage now sits around rotting for two weeks before the city comes around to collect it;

Do the people who write this stuff even live in the city?

Garbage doesn't rot for 2 weeks before collection. Anything that rots is in the green bin that is collected weekly. The contents of the garbage can are pretty minimal these days with most stuff going to the blue bin and green bin.

The shear ignorance of these writers is disappointing.

 

[Parsnips]

I'd think someone in the suburbs near 905, with similar value house prices to 905, would already be very happy at how much lower his tax rates were than 905. My point stands, there doesn't seem to be much sense to these desires.

Well, it's the suburban people that he's gotten ignited over high taxes, and they say they'd vote for him on a platform that for the most part ignores the downtown. I'm not saying it makes sense- that's why I don't want him :O

 

[jn_12]

I remember reading it in an article, I'll try to dig it up.

Remember, you said drastically. So you better make sure those numbers you find are jaw-dropping.

Because it costs more to get things in the city done. It's not a fair wage policy, it's an exuberant wage policy. It's the kind of mindset that pays a TTC ticket collector $70 000 a year to sit in a booth, and it might be great for them, but it's costing the possibility of that money going to other things. The wages that are set without the policy are standard, and in line with what everyone else makes.

It's great when you cherry pick a job like ticket collector to make a point. But for every ticket collector there are dozens of employees in the Toronto Public Service where fair wage policy is very fair. Nevertheless, I'd much rather know a ticket collector is making 70k and will therefore be able to maybe send his/her kids to university (who one day contribute to our society) than have a ticket collector who needs to go out and get a second job taking him/her away from their family (and we know the effects that such conditions can have on families). Much of the public's hate for the fair wage policy and the unions stems from people being jealous that they can't collectively bargain for a better wage/living. It's a sense of "why do they get that, when I don't" and I'm not in favour of bring people down to the lowest common denominator because we've seen in so many places how unbeneficial that is when creating a society.

 

[Parsnips]

It's a sense of "why do they get that, when I don't" and I'm not in favour of bring people down to the lowest common denominator because we've seen in so many places how unbeneficial that is when creating a society.

Nono, I don't wanna bring people down to the lowest denominator- but regardless, that wouldn't happen without the fair wage policy- remember, we're not in China. The private sector salaries are fair enough, and I don't know why the city needs to dig deeper into it's pockets to raise that bar.

 

[Canuck]

I'm closing this thread - not because it's about Rob Ford, but because we don't need a thread for every vote cast (for him or any other candidate).

Multiple Rob Ford thread already exist - post in one of those threads if you're so inclined.

Perhaps election day there can be a 'super' thread about voting, final thoughts, results, etc. etc. etc. For now, any and all new threads like this one, are completely unnecessary.