How to deal with subway failures

[andrewpmk]

Have to be surprised at how few people took alternate routes such as the Spadina line instead of waiting for the shuttle bus (never a good idea). The TTC needs to put up more information in the event of a subway shutdown, such as more information on the OneStop screens suggesting alternative routes (such as the Spadina line, taking a north-south bus from the B-D line instead of taking an east-west one from the Yonge line, or taking GO).

 

[scarberiankhatru]

This may come as a total shock to the urban Toronto forum, but most people in the city don't have the Ride Guide memorized. Many others that use transit every day can't even tell north from south. When announcements blare "Attention all passengers on the Yonge-University-Spadina line, we are currently experiencing a delay at our *&##^&@@$* station, $%^*@^#^&#@ buses," many that would otherwise be willing and able to find alternate routes become frustrated, confused, and caught up in huge mobs of people wandering around. Alternate routes generally don't have room for a few hundred more riders, let alone tens of thousands.

 

[Asterix]

Have to be surprised at how few people took alternate routes such as the Spadina line instead of waiting for the shuttle bus (never a good idea).

Yesterday around 5pm there were announcements suggesting people use St George for accessing the B-D line due to crowding at Yonge/Bloor. It wasn't clear in the announcement that there was no subway service between St Clair and Bloor (whether that lack of clarity was due to the announcement content or typical quality of the in-subway broadcast system, I can't say).

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

It would be interesting to know how many people standing at Bloor Station for a shuttle bus were traveling to St Clair, Davisville or Eglinton Stations?

 

[nfitz]

This may come as a total shock to the urban Toronto forum, but most people in the city don't have the Ride Guide memorized.

Sure, but I'd think most people who ride the same route, day after day, year after year, would at least have thought what they would do if the subway was down.

Though many seemed to ... judging by the crowds I saw at Pape waiting for the Don Mills bus heading north ... and it also doesn't help that they have to pull the buses from somewhere, so most routes will be short buses. When the SRT is down, the Don Mills buses get stolen.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Sure, but I'd think most people who ride the same route, day after day, year after year, would at least have thought what they would do if the subway was down.

Again, transit-knowledgeable folks always overestimate how familiar and comfortable normal people are with the system, particularly when rumours about what happened and when and where they should go spread through a mob of people and when the mob receives virtually no useful updates from the TTC.

 

[kettal]

So, should there be an education campaign to familiarize everybody about alternative routes?

 

[Red Mosquito]

This may come as a total shock to the urban Toronto forum, but most people in the city don't have the Ride Guide memorized. Many others that use transit every day can't even tell north from south. When announcements blare "Attention all passengers on the Yonge-University-Spadina line, we are currently experiencing a delay at our *&##^&@@$* station, $%^*@^#^&#@ buses," many that would otherwise be willing and able to find alternate routes become frustrated, confused, and caught up in huge mobs of people wandering around. Alternate routes generally don't have room for a few hundred more riders, let alone tens of thousands.

I disagree. I understand a tourist being confused, but a local torontonian should have a genneral knowledge of their city, which includes a general knowledge of their transit system. Everyone should learn alternate routes to and from work beforehand for "shit happens" situations like yesterday. Just like ignorance of the law is no excuse, it should be your civic duty to understand the basics of the place you live.

God forbid we have a terrorist attack in Toronto. Will people be prepared, stay calm and carry on? Or will they freak out and wait for someone to take care of them?

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I disagree. I understand a tourist being confused, but a local torontonian should have a genneral knowledge of their city, which includes a general knowledge of their transit system. Everyone should learn alternate routes to and from work beforehand for "shit happens" situations like yesterday. Just like ignorance of the law is no excuse, it should be your civic duty to understand the basics of the place you live.

God forbid we have a terrorist attack in Toronto. Will people be prepared, stay calm and carry on? Or will they freak out and wait for someone to take care of them?

You can agree or disagree, but what I said is true. Yes, more people should be more aware of alternate routes, but that doesn't mean people actually are aware. Even if people are aware of other routes, getting there can be a problem (even if they can tell north from south) when the system is so crowded and they may not be sure if waiting for the delay to clear will be quicker than walking or taking alternate routes since TTC announcements/updates are so horrible. It's not like alternate routes aren't already slow and overcrowded themselves. Nobody wants to get caught up in a crowd and risk not taking the quickest and most direct vehicle home.

That's where better announcements come into play and - importantly - better directions from TTC employees (which requires informing TTC employees). If the announcement tells you to get a shuttle bus on the street and a TTC guy tells you shuttle buses are lining up in the bus terminal, which way do you go? What if they're both wrong and there are no shuttles? It's easy to say "they should have done ___" hours after the fact.

 

[Red Mosquito]

You can agree or disagree, but what I said is true. Yes, more people should be more aware of alternate routes, but that doesn't mean people actually are aware. Even if people are aware of other routes, getting there can be a problem (even if they can tell north from south) when the system is so crowded and they may not be sure if waiting for the delay to clear will be quicker than walking or taking alternate routes since TTC announcements/updates are so horrible. It's not like alternate routes aren't already slow and overcrowded themselves. Nobody wants to get caught up in a crowd and risk not taking the quickest and most direct vehicle home.

That's where better announcements come into play and - importantly - better directions from TTC employees (which requires informing TTC employees). If the announcement tells you to get a shuttle bus on the street and a TTC guy tells you shuttle buses are lining up in the bus terminal, which way do you go? What if they're both wrong and there are no shuttles? It's easy to say "they should have done ___" hours after the fact.

I agree with you that communication can be better. Very legitimate criticisim. I didnt know about it untill I got to Eglinton. If I knew about it at Sheppard, I would of taken the bus to Downsview. However, that is no excuse for having an altrinate plan. We must be aware of our surroundings. Is basic grographical skills too much to ask for. People who dont know their north from south need to learn, just like I look at a map of an unknown city before I travel there, to get a general sense of where things are.

 

[kettal]

Some people aren't good navigators. It's something you're born with.

 

[wyliepoon]

Having just made the move to Markham from Scarborough, I now depend on the YUS instead of the BD for my commute. Fortunately I signed up my work email to the TTC mailing list and was able to find out about the incident early. I took the GO Train and got home 15 minutes faster than if I took the subway (but I'm still sticking with TTC because it's cheaper and the Metropass is too much of a convenience for me).

*****

I think before we think up solutions on how to fix this kind of situation, we as passengers need to hold TTC accountable for service delays and stoppages. It seems like the TTC gets away scot-free every time an incident like this happens - after a day and an apology, the TTC and passengers go their separate ways as though nothing ever happened. The TTC is never held accountable for anything under this system.

At the dinner table last night my family was talking about this, and someone brought up the idea that the TTC should give passengers a refund. While reading the Chinese page about Hong Kong's MTR on Wikipedia, I found this...

On Feb 14 2007, there was a fire on board a commuter train on the KCR West Rail Line (now part of the MTR) during the morning rush hour. The train had to be evacuated and service on the line was stopped for 40 minutes.

To compensate the passengers who were affected, KCR (the operator of the line) offered free rides on the West Rail Line between 9am and 1pm on Feb 21, exactly one week after the incident. Also, a discount of $10HK (currently $1.30 Cdn) was given on the West Rail monthly pass ( for the following month (March).

http://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-hk/港鐵#2000.E5.B9.B4.E4.BB.A3 (in Chinese)

Maybe this is what TTC should do after a major delay that paralyzes a subway line during peak hours. Translating what KCR did in that incident to this week's incident, the TTC should open up the YUS for free rides next Wednesday evening, and offer a discount on December Metropasses.

I think by hitting the TTC where it hurts the most (ie. the farebox) will the TTC actually wake up and face the issue of service stoppages and delays. I think a Facebook group advocating this is better than any "Boycott the TTC" group.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Hong Kong's transit lines likely make profits - our transit lines are more like public services. Punishing the TTC financially for something that was not at all their fault will only cause the TTC to fall further into the red and necessitate either service cuts or fare increases. Nobody wins.

 

[ShonTron]

The MTR only makes a profit because of its huge real estate holdings, including rental of large retail concourses in the subway stations. It's profitable as a whole, but not the transit operations themselves.

 

[Asterix]

I think by hitting the TTC where it hurts the most (ie. the farebox) will the TTC actually wake up and face the issue of service stoppages and delays. I think a Facebook group advocating this is better than any "Boycott the TTC" group.

Further to what Graphic Matt posted, the TTC is already getting hit when such stoppages happen. They aren't getting more fare revenue during the stoppage (and are probably loosing a few thousand during that specific time period), but they also have increased expenses when it comes to paying overtime other costs for throwing a whole whack of buses (and their drivers) at the problem.

Just to extend the analogy, would people expect tax refunds from the province if an accident blocked the 401 or scheduled construction turned their 40 minute commute into 2 hours due to lane restrictions?