Richard White
Senior Member
This thread is designated for the discussion of homelessness on the various transit systems in the GTA.
while this is targeted towards america, this applies to canada as well
It does.
I wish to offer these observations:
1) Imprisoning someone while cruel and excessive, does actually ensure they will be 'housed' and fed.
2) Imprisoning someone, almost certainly costs the state more than providing a shelter bed; and vastly more than providing conventional affordable housing.
The above, would seem to make the folly of under-funding social benefits and housing rather obvious; but somehow that doesn't seem apparent to many of the decision makers.
1) Sure, imprisoning someone is cruel. So is sleeping on the streets of a Canadian city on a January night. Homelessness is much more cruel than even being institutionalized.It does.
I wish to offer these observations:
1) Imprisoning someone while cruel and excessive, does actually ensure they will be 'housed' and fed.
2) Imprisoning someone, almost certainly costs the state more than providing a shelter bed; and vastly more than providing conventional affordable housing.
The above, would seem to make the folly of under-funding social benefits and housing rather obvious; but somehow that doesn't seem apparent to many of the decision makers.
1) Sure, imprisoning someone is cruel. So is sleeping on the streets of a Canadian city on a January night. Homelessness is much more cruel than even being institutionalized.
2) You're assuming that a) that person would be safe in a shelter bed. and b) that person wants a shelter bed. Both of which are not a given.
I've not seen the cost of affordable housing compared to imprisonment, so I can't make that assertion
, but I think once again that this assumes that individuals sleeping rough ALWAYS want affordable housing or addictions treatment, which is absolutely not always the case.
For some people that are unhoused, (some, not all, not even many) that "lifestyle" provides them with a measure of freedom that isn't present either in a shelter setting or a supportive housing setting. If these people break the law, either by using drugs in public, committing acts or threats of violence, or otherwise making people feel unsafe, they absolutely should be arrested and face prison time if convicted. The rule of law should apply to all, even those that are unhoused.
Here's the thing.
If someone is shooting up heroine every night they will not be allowed into a proper shelter. When offered treatment they would likely refuse rather than give up the drugs or not be able to comprehend what you are saying.
Sometimes, incarceration is the only option if it means getting sober. It may cost more but the long term benefits outweigh the short ones.
1) Sure, imprisoning someone is cruel. So is sleeping on the streets of a Canadian city on a January night. Homelessness is much more cruel than even being institutionalized.
2) You're assuming that a) that person would be safe in a shelter bed. and b) that person wants a shelter bed. Both of which are not a given. I've not seen the cost of affordable housing compared to imprisonment, so I can't make that assertion, but I think once again that this assumes that individuals sleeping rough ALWAYS want affordable housing or addictions treatment, which is absolutely not always the case.
For some people that are unhoused, (some, not all, not even many) that "lifestyle" provides them with a measure of freedom that isn't present either in a shelter setting or a supportive housing setting. If these people break the law, either by using drugs in public, committing acts or threats of violence, or otherwise making people feel unsafe, they absolutely should be arrested and face prison time if convicted. The rule of law should apply to all, even those that are unhoused.
Problem is that for many of these folks, you can't simply rent them an apartment and leave them to their own devices, with untreated mental illness and addiction. Part of that market rate for a rental unit is a decent credit score, which is indicative of some degree of having your sh!t together. Landlords will want more if they are having to deal with hiring plumbers to fish used syringes out of clogged toilets or dealing with neighbour complaints about hoarding, bad odours, aggressive behaviour, etc.Cost of a market rent studio apartment in Toronto, full price:
$1,500 per month
Problem is that for many of these folks, you can't simply rent them an apartment and leave them to their own devices, with untreated mental illness and addiction. Part of that market rate for a rental unit is a decent credit score, which is indicative of some degree of having your sh!t together. Landlords will want more if they are having to deal with hiring plumbers to fish used syringes out of clogged toilets or dealing with neighbour complaints about hoarding, bad odours, aggressive behaviour, etc.
Problem is that for many of these folks, you can't simply rent them an apartment and leave them to their own devices, with untreated mental illness and addiction. Part of that market rate for a rental unit is a decent credit score, which is indicative of some degree of having your sh!t together. Landlords will want more if they are having to deal with hiring plumbers to fish used syringes out of clogged toilets or dealing with neighbour complaints about hoarding, bad odours, aggressive behaviour, etc.
I think this misses the point.
The video which I still don't think anyone has actually watched is about jailing people NOT for being violent or using drugs, but simply for being in a tent.
Now, if the care required is an indefinite stay in a psychiatric hospital, then, we're more expensive than prison. Still, I'd wager its cheaper than the adverse effects of leaving that person untreated and unhoused.