Homelessness on GTA Transit (catch all)

[J Bacon]

you've given up your rights to self autonomy and you need some sort of treatment to be given to you forcefully.

Slippery slope - the argument is that whomever I deem unfit should be "forced" into a situation regardless of the reality.
This could easily be expanded to include people experiencing homelessness - force them into some other situation which would not be the right way to deal with the issues.

How do you draw the line?
Sure, a violent mentally ill person is a danger and should be dealt with - but some guy walking around yelling at the voices in his head is not a danger.

 

[evandyk]

We already have a system that draws that line. It doesn't actually work very well in practice because we don't have the right supports in place to refer, adjudicate, etc. but the line is that you can only be involuntarily admitted for psychiatric treatment where someone has a condition that "likely will result in serious bodily harm to the person or to another person or substantial mental or physical deterioration of the person or serious physical impairment of the person"

 

[SubHuman]

... we can continue to enjoy more 'security incidents' and 'unauthorised entry on the track' situations, which severely diminishes the utility of the TTC and its reputation.

I tried to look up some kind of number for how often this is happening as compared to a few years ago, but wasn't able to find anything specific. It certainly seems to be occurring more often. It also seems strange that sometimes the announcements (when you can actually hear and understand them) can vary in being vague ("security incident") and specifying "unauthorized person at track level" type of thing. Sometimes I've heard "security incident", then had a uniformed TTC person actually telling people on the platform that someone ran into the tunnel (trying, usually unsuccessfully, to encourage people to leave the platform and wait outside for shuttle buses that may or may not arrive before service resumes). And as I mentioned once previously,
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/ttc-other-items-catch-all.20264/post-1893147
I've also heard "security incident" while overhearing the radio in the operators compartment (this was back when they had briefly allowed people to sit near there again) that it was definitely someone running into the tunnel, and leaving no doubt over their frustration about how frequently this was occurring and apparently many of the same individuals were doing it repeatedly.
I don't want to sound overly suspicious, but it makes me wonder what purpose might be served by sometimes apparently obscuring this.

 

[vic]

The only time I've seen non-staff enter the tunnels was at Islington station a few years ago. A guy left his bag on the platform, went in to the westbound tunnel, and returned after about a minute. Guessing he needed a private place to have a quick pee. No staff called, no service delay.

 

[afransen]

That is completely false. Something like 99% of homeless are addicted to drugs or are mentally unwell.

A small portion? Get out of here with that nonsense.

99% of stats are completely made up.

 

[TheHonestMaple]

99% of stats are completely made up.

The first website that comes up on Google when you search for the stat is the Arlington Life Shelter - which is a non-profit helping the homeless in Arlington USA. According to that site 68% of homeless are due to substance addiction, and another 25% is due to mental illness, that's 93%. They reference the National Coalition for the Homeless for the the research, which states that those percentages are a national average in the USA. I suspect Canada is quite similar.

Why facing that reality is so difficult for you people is beyond me. Go walk around any encampment in Toronto, it's clearly mostly related to drugs. If we can get these people the help they so desperately need and deserve, we might actually be able to solve the problem.

I personally know someone close to my family that was homeless and past away due to addiction to drugs. This is not something i'm making up. This is the reality. I wish people would take it more seriously.

 

[crs1026]

The first website that comes up on Google when you search for the stat is the Arlington Life Shelter - which is a non-profit helping the homeless in Arlington USA. According to that site 68% of homeless are due to substance addiction, and another 25% is due to mental illness, that's 93%. They reference the National Coalition for the Homeless for the the research, which states that those percentages are a national average in the USA. I suspect Canada is quite similar.

Why facing that reality is so difficult for you people is beyond me. Go walk around any encampment in Toronto, it's clearly mostly related to drugs. If we can get these people the help they so desperately need and deserve, we might actually be able to solve the problem.

I personally know someone close to my family that was homeless and past away due to addiction to drugs. This is not something i'm making up. This is the reality. I wish people would take it more seriously.

With respect, the "you people" bit is a bit aggressive...

I don't think anyone is disputing the prevalence of substance addiction.....the problem is how to intervene in it. How does one determine that an addiction is so profound that it justifies a forced treatment? There are no bright lines.

Further, the road to sobriety most commonly involves relapses, it's not a simple process. So people may drift in and out of the process. Our support systems have to be geared to people who may still be using, hopefully in a decreasing and less harmful trend. Doors to help should not slam shut just because someone relapses.

We coped with an addicted population for years by tolerating rooming houses and just leaving addicts alone. Maybe we should have done more, and maybe we shouldn't go back to that.....although I see no way of avoiding a grey zone of housing that is better than tents but less than full apartment design and full building code compliance.

Changes in the housing market have forced people onto the street. It's a bit chicken and egg, and the overlap between substance abuse and mental heath is pretty substantial - so I'm not sure the data is as clear cut as you suggest.

- Paul

 

[generalcanada]

maple, here's some official Canadian statistics.

In 2018, Everyone Counts, the second nationally coordinated Point-in-Time count, surveyed19,536 people across 61 communities about their experience of homelessness. This reportanalyzes responses from those who identified addiction or substance use as a reason for theirrecent housing loss. Key findings from the report are as follows:

- Addiction or substance use was the most commonly cited reason for housing loss. More than a quarter(25.1%) of survey respondents indicated that addiction or substance use was a reason for their most recent housing loss.

- The proportion of male respondents reporting addiction or substance use as a reason for housing loss(27.6%) was higher than the proportions of female (21.0%) and gender diverse respondents (22.7%).

- The proportion of individuals who reported addiction or substance use increased with time spent homeless, from 19.0% at 0–2 months to 28.2% for those who reported over 6 months of homelessnessin the previous year

- The proportion of respondents who reported addiction or substance use was similar between thosewho identified as Indigenous (First Nations, Métis, Inuit or Indigenous ancestry) (27.7%) and nonIndigenous (27.2%). However, a higher proportion of Indigenous female respondents reportedaddiction or substance use as a reason for housing loss (27.9%) compared with non-Indigenousfemale respondents (21.4%).

- In communities that conducted 2016 and 2018 Point-in-Time surveys, the prevalence of people whoidentified addiction or substance use as a reason for housing loss increased from 20.9% to 26.0%.Increases were observed for each age group, in particular for youth and adults.

13,000 people were surveyed in 32 communities in 2 separate studies in 2016 and 2018 across Canada

25% said they lost their housing due to addiction,
20% said because they couldnt pay rent
15% said domestic issue with partner

Also note that the chance of becoming addicted goes up 50% after 6 months of homelessness

https://www.infrastructure.gc.ca/al...s/HPD-Report-AddictionsReport-20210121-VF.pdf

But theres this study from 2010 which sampled a few shelters in Toronto and found 60% have used a drug in their life with 40% using within 30 days
Alcohol addiction also showing in 50% of people
Since its 2010, marijuana addiction is included here too which personally I think makes this study too old to count

check this out though. Personally I think this one is flawed for this reason here, You cant just ignore what caused them to be addicted to start with

Individuals with current drug problems were significantly more likely to be single men, white, Canadian-born, and lacking a high school degree. They were also more likely to be younger and to have become homeless at a younger age.

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-10-94
To summarize:

• Multiple studies show that the number of people with addiction is way lower than what you think
• Multiple studies note that youth is a major factor is housing loss.
• Studies show rent is an issue for a lot of people

And finally, People don't become homeless because of addiction, They become homeless for many, many complicated reasons

 

[afransen]

The first website that comes up on Google when you search for the stat is the Arlington Life Shelter - which is a non-profit helping the homeless in Arlington USA. According to that site 68% of homeless are due to substance addiction, and another 25% is due to mental illness, that's 93%. They reference the National Coalition for the Homeless for the the research, which states that those percentages are a national average in the USA. I suspect Canada is quite similar.

Why facing that reality is so difficult for you people is beyond me. Go walk around any encampment in Toronto, it's clearly mostly related to drugs. If we can get these people the help they so desperately need and deserve, we might actually be able to solve the problem.

I personally know someone close to my family that was homeless and past away due to addiction to drugs. This is not something i'm making up. This is the reality. I wish people would take it more seriously.

I was just calling you out for making up a superlative stat. Good for you for attempting to bring actual evidence.

Arlington is not Toronto, however. And a lot depends on how you define 'homeless'.

 

[afransen]

13,000 people were surveyed in 32 communities in 2 separate studies in 2016 and 2018 across Canada

25% said they lost their housing due to addiction,
20% said because they couldnt pay rent
15% said domestic issue with partner

Also note that the chance of becoming addicted goes up 50% after 6 months of homelessness

Yes, this seems right to me. Homelessness and drug addiction are probably a feedback loop. It's not likely to be effective if we just addressed one or the other instead of both.

 

[generalcanada]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/david-eby-public-drug-use-1.7186245

somewhat relevant.

Though I understand why. I think this is only the start of the move back towards criminalizing drug use everywhere

 

[goodcitywhenfinished]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/david-eby-public-drug-use-1.7186245

somewhat relevant.

Though I understand why. I think this is only the start of the move back towards criminalizing drug use everywhere

This is good. The idea that we could copy Portugese policy without any of the strings attached or public use regulations was absurd.

 

[Bojaxs]

I'm currently in Edmonton. I wanted to ride the LRT while I'm here, but unfortunately a lot of the stations have been turned into open drug dens. It makes waiting for the train an unpleasent experience.

It also doesn't help that downtown Edmonton seems desolate, and you see no one walking the streets except for wandering junkies.

 

[goodcitywhenfinished]

I'm currently in Edmonton. I wanted to ride the LRT while I'm here, but unfortunately a lot of the stations have been turned into open drug dens. It makes waiting for the train an unpleasent experience.

It also doesn't help that downtown Edmonton seems desolate, and you see no one walking the streets except for wandering junkies.

Being from Edmonton myself, I always have to roll my eyes when people complain about homelessness, drug use, and crime in the GTA. I have a feeling most Toronto residents have no idea just how bad things are in Edmonton. Toronto feels way more safe.

I also find it funny that a lot of Albertans, including my parents and their neighbours, have this idea of Toronto as this super dangerous place. I would 100% take downtown Toronto over downtown Edmonton any day.

Walking through Dundas and Sherbourne feels like walking through the nicest part of downtown Edmonton. I am not even exaggerating.

Another weird thing is that Alberta is the wealthiest place in Canada while Ontario has a GDP per capita that resembles Alabama and yet the street level inequality is just so much worse in Alberta.

 

[TheHonestMaple]

Being from Edmonton myself, I always have to roll my eyes when people complain about homelessness, drug use, and crime in the GTA. I have a feeling most Toronto residents have no idea just how bad things are in Edmonton. Toronto feels way more safe.

I also find it funny that a lot of Albertans, including my parents and their neighbours, have this idea of Toronto as this super dangerous place. I would 100% take downtown Toronto over downtown Edmonton any day.

Walking through Dundas and Sherbourne feels like walking through the nicest part of downtown Edmonton. I am not even exaggerating.

Another weird thing is that Alberta is the wealthiest place in Canada while Ontario has a GDP per capita that resembles Alabama and yet the street level inequality is just so much worse in Alberta.

You're converting CAD to USD directly and making it sound like Ontario has the same standard of living as Alabama. You have to use PPP (purchasing power parity) to make any meaningful comparison.