Homelessness and Panhandling in Toronto

[ganjavih]

I think the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of individual rights. If you are too mentally ill to make decisions for yourself, society should step in.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Adm. Beez:

Humane and morally right? Perhaps, perhaps not - whether someone needs institutionalization is dependent on the severity of their illness, as well as whether their illness can be managed in a community setting. Beyond that, institutionalization is probably the MOST expensive option from a system perspective - if one doesn't need it, one shouldn't be there, period.

AoD

Yes, but if one does need it, the option should be there. If the alternative is some poor chap living on the street and dying from cold in the winter, I don't care how expensive an institution is.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

i was reading an article in the star about the state of some apartment buildings in toronto; rat & mouse infested, leaking, no running water, no heat, people have to put their clothes dressers on the balcony due to roach infestations, etc.

just a thought, but some may prefer to be homeless than live in such conditions. a side walk grate my provide more heat, a park fountain my provide more water,
the sidewalk may be more clean, etc. than some apartments.

pretty tragic.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Re: the story behind why each particular is on the streets. Perhaps it's better we don't focus on why they're there, otherwise we *will* want to classify them, slotting them into group A that needs help and group B that, since they chose to be there, should not be helped; people will then be left on the streets. Then again, maybe this would work: by ignoring 'homelessness' and deeming it impossible to fix, we instead try to help group A in practical ways and let group B lie in the beds they've made.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Adm. Beez:

Yes, but if one does need it, the option should be there. If the alternative is some poor chap living on the street and dying from cold in the winter, I don't care how expensive an institution is.

Indeed - keep in mind though living in an institution is often times bad for the individual as well (like seniors loses 5% of their functioning every day in an acute care setting); cheaper alternatives such as supportive housing (i.e. housing with support services such as case management, meals, etc) should be promoted whenever it is helpful to the individual instead - since they tend to produce better outcomes for those that doesn't need institutionalization by helping them to maintain some degree of independence.

AoD

 

[Hydrogen]

The success or failure of institutions often depends on the factors present in a particular institution.

One argument often made for avoiding the return to institutionalization of the mentally ill (beyond the issues of rights) is a belief that all past efforts somehow resulted in horrifying warehouses for the sick. For some reason, there seems to be a persistent belief that medical science, with respect to mental health, has not made any headway since the 1950's, and that errors of the past would automatically be repeated. In fact, tens of thousands of people are leading much better lives thanks to some impressive medications that were unavailable ten or fifteen years ago.

One has to wonder how many homeless, mentally ill people out there could have very different lives if they were in (or in contact with) an environment that could provide necessary medication and services?

 

[ganjavih]

The success or failure of institutions often depends on the factors present in a particular institution.

One argument often made for avoiding the return to institutionalization of the mentally ill (beyond the issues of rights) is a belief that all past efforts somehow resulted in horrifying warehouses for the sick. For some reason, there seems to be a persistent belief that medical science, with respect to mental health, has not made any headway since the 1950's, and that errors of the past would automatically be repeated. In fact, tens of thousands of people are leading much better lives thanks to some impressive medications that were unavailable ten or fifteen years ago.

One has to wonder how many homeless, mentally ill people out there could have very different lives if they were in (or in contact with) an environment that could provide necessary medication and services?

The only thing I disagree with in this post in the claim that there are impressive medications now available that were unavailable ten of fifteen years ago. I don't think there are.

 

[simply Dan]

Last night Darkstar416 and I walked by a group of Asian tourists snapping a digital photo of a bum passed-out and barefoot in a University Ave. centre median – we couldn’t figure if the whole sight was more sad or humorous...

 

[RJR123]

I vote for sad...and embarassing.

 

[simply Dan]

We couldn't understand why they would want a photo? Strange people...

 

[RJR123]

I agree. That's a pretty lame thing to take a photo of, unless they are from a small town where homelessness doesn't exist (or is hidden).

 

[beaconer]

I'd say the same reason I saw North American tourists take pictures of 5-6 year old kids begging on the streets or selling candy of South American countries (like Peru) and similar behaviour all over the world that comes in different forms, depending on the contrast in culture.

Tourists are quite naturally tactless and oblivious to what may or my not be socially acceptable or strange.

And North Americans can be seen as the worst offenders. Although a bit of an exageration, if you ever watch the show Amazing Race, the behaviour and cultural insensitivity of that show is hilarious.

 

[Hydrogen]

Oh great, idiots on a TV show have now come to represent North Americans.

Ouch.

 

[beaconer]

I never said it was a representation.

 

[Hydrogen]

No, I did.