Highway 401 Transit and Auto Tunnel

[generalcanada]

Just so you know where nomie public sentiment is on this, my conservative buddy whose as anti-bike lanes as you get even laughed at the idea. Even he knows how ridiculous it is.
While its a good campaign slogan, the project gets shelved as soon as that "study" comes out. with a minimum price tag upwards of 30 billion in the cheapest possible scenario, the government simply cant afford it. Maybe if it was tolled, but that wont happen

 

[afransen]

Just so you know where nomie public sentiment is on this, my conservative buddy whose as anti-bike lanes as you get even laughed at the idea. Even he knows how ridiculous it is.
While its a good campaign slogan, the project gets shelved as soon as that "study" comes out. with a minimum price tag upwards of 30 billion in the cheapest possible scenario, the government simply cant afford it. Maybe if it was tolled, but that wont happen

I think it makes them look amateurish and unserious. Why did he have to announce anything? Can you do a confidential feasibility study and decide what to announce knowing those findings? Apparently most of the government didn't know about this before he announced it.

 

[sixrings]

I think it makes them look amateurish and unserious. Why did he have to announce anything? Can you do a confidential feasibility study and decide what to announce knowing those findings? Apparently most of the government didn't know about this before he announced it.

But he’s not serious about building it. Kind of like smart track. So he says he’s studying it. But oh wait the project is so big he won’t know the results until after the election. But vote for him for being a visionary and at least trying in the meantime. Gets elected and suddenly we almost never hear of it again This is as wild as trumps wall idea. Yet he got votes.

 

[innsertnamehere]

It's in the works and awaiting funding. The Dundas interchange has been designed and the Mooreston bypass is shovel ready.

Dundas interchange starts construction next year. Morriston Bypass is in a continuous holding pattern for whatever reason.

There are no real plans to upgrade 6 in between the two projects though. I think making it a RIRO a la 11/35 would work fine and be a lot cheaper than a full freeway upgrade, but regardless MTO has no plans for either.

 

[ericmacm]

I would also like to add these things too to the transportation network to do list:

• Highway 35/115 being upgrade to full freeway status.
• Highway 11 from Barrie to Gravenhurst finally being upgraded to full freeway status. Seriously long weekend traffic gets scary with short merging lanes.

Get all private entrances disconnected from these routes and build some proper interchanges.

I think these projects do need to be undertaken (the discontinuities in our freeway systems are kind of annoying), but I don't see how they are relevant to/would ease the situation on the 401 as alternatives to the tunnel plan.

 

[lenaitch]

I would also like to add these things too to the transportation network to do list:

• Highway 35/115 being upgrade to full freeway status.
• Highway 11 from Barrie to Gravenhurst finally being upgraded to full freeway status. Seriously long weekend traffic gets scary with short merging lanes.

Get all private entrances disconnected from these routes and build some proper interchanges.

I do believe the MTO has long range plans to re-align Hwy 11 (not sure about 35/115). Trying to shoe-horn a controlled access freeway into the current alignment would require the expropriation of many, many businesses and residences. Regardless, not related to this thread's topic.

 

[ssiguy2]

But Doug Ford says it's getting built.

Doug didn't say it's getting built but rather he wants it built and those are 2 very different things. It is not launching a plan but rather a feasibility study which will probably come out and say it's impossible for less than a $100 billion over 30 years. How many VIA high speed rail feasibility studies are collecting dust in Ottawa? This is quite unlike the Ontario Line where he came out with the announcement, plan, and funding all at the same time which means it's full steam ahead.

 

[Adjei]

Doug didn't say it's getting built but rather he wants it built and those are 2 very different things. It is not launching a plan but rather a feasibility study which will probably come out and say it's impossible for less than a $100 billion over 30 years. How many VIA high speed rail feasibility studies are collecting dust in Ottawa? This is quite unlike the Ontario Line where he came out with the announcement, plan, and funding all at the same time which means it's full steam ahead.

Exactly after the feasibility studies, they will probably say it’s too expensive and there are cheaper alternatives which can do the same job.

 

[guavadelic]

Doug didn't say it's getting built but rather he wants it built and those are 2 very different things. It is not launching a plan but rather a feasibility study which will probably come out and say it's impossible for less than a $100 billion over 30 years. How many VIA high speed rail feasibility studies are collecting dust in Ottawa? This is quite unlike the Ontario Line where he came out with the announcement, plan, and funding all at the same time which means it's full steam ahead.

He actually did say it's getting built:

“I’ll tell you one thing, we’re getting this tunnel built,” proclaimed Ontario’s Premier as traffic crawled along behind him.

Doug Ford wants a tunnel under Ontario's Highway 401. He could learn something from Boston's 'Big Dig'

Ontario's Premier Doug Ford wants to dig Canada's largest city out of its traffic woes.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[guavadelic]

One positive of Ford's wild idea is that it might make some previously far-off transit solutions seem more urgent, like the proposed Multi-modal transit hub at Pearson(Union Station West). All of a sudden a tunnel under Airport Road to service a heavy rail station at Pearson doesn't seem so crazy and can be justified by future (non-Ford) governments to address 401 congestion.

The 401/427 interchange is a huge bottleneck afterall.

 

[ericmacm]

Looks like Ford considered buying the 407 ETR. He suggested that it would cost $35B to buy it back, but went on to say that buying it would not be cost-effective because it will eventually be at capacity at some point during 2025-2050.

Interestingly, there is one point he made that I do agree with on this project - that Ontario has the tunnelling expertise. At this point, with the amount of tunnelled subway extensions and projects happening in Toronto, with others on the way in the future, this is the right time to start planning a massive tunnel project. Subsurface conditions obviously remain an obstacle for any tunnel project, but the expertise is here right now.

He also mentioned that the transit system running down the middle would “stop at every single stop”, whatever that’s supposed to mean (maybe each interchange?). It makes me think that it will likely be another subway line, since the ridership of underground BRT wouldn’t be worth the cost of a tunnel.

 

[generalcanada]

Looks like Ford considered buying the 407 ETR. He suggested that it would cost $35B to buy it back, but went on to say that buying it would not be cost-effective because it will eventually be at capacity at some point during 2025-2050.

Interestingly, there is one point he made that I do agree with on this project - that Ontario has the tunnelling expertise. At this point, with the amount of tunnelled subway extensions and projects happening in Toronto, with others on the way in the future, this is the right time to start planning a massive tunnel project. Subsurface conditions obviously remain an obstacle for any tunnel project, but the expertise is here right now.

He also mentioned that the transit system running down the middle would “stop at every single stop”, whatever that’s supposed to mean (maybe each interchange?). It makes me think that it will likely be another subway line, since the ridership of underground BRT wouldn’t be worth the cost of a tunnel.

I do find the cognitave dissonance hilarious here.

“Studies have come out that we’ll be at full capacity in another 20, 25 years on the 407 — that defeats the purpose,” Ford said.

So....How long until this tunnel will be at capacity? LOL

 

[afransen]

Looks like Ford considered buying the 407 ETR. He suggested that it would cost $35B to buy it back, but went on to say that buying it would not be cost-effective because it will eventually be at capacity at some point during 2025-2050.

Interestingly, there is one point he made that I do agree with on this project - that Ontario has the tunnelling expertise. At this point, with the amount of tunnelled subway extensions and projects happening in Toronto, with others on the way in the future, this is the right time to start planning a massive tunnel project. Subsurface conditions obviously remain an obstacle for any tunnel project, but the expertise is here right now.

He also mentioned that the transit system running down the middle would “stop at every single stop”, whatever that’s supposed to mean (maybe each interchange?). It makes me think that it will likely be another subway line, since the ridership of underground BRT wouldn’t be worth the cost of a tunnel.

I'm not sure Ontario can pat itself on the back with its 'tunnelling expertise' given how projects have gone.

For the cost of a subway line, it shouldn't be buried under the 401 where it is impossible to access. That whole idea is nonsense, and only designed to make the car tunnel seem less egregious.

 

[afransen]

I do find the cognitave dissonance hilarious here.

“Studies have come out that we’ll be at full capacity in another 20, 25 years on the 407 — that defeats the purpose,” Ford said.

So....How long until this tunnel will be at capacity? LOL

I think it is fair to point out that buying out the lease for the 407 and dropping tolls wouldn't actually add much effective capacity to the highway network. It might reduce some VMTs directly by having people take more direct routes, but the 407 would be instantly jammed and there would be no way to cross the region quickly at any price (short of a private helicopter). Perhaps the 407 could be expanded further? The 407 ROW is generally fairly large, but I'm not sure how much further it could be widened without some expropriation. Normally I would balk at buying out the lease (at least half of it is going to CPP), but it might be a better option than spending $100B on a 30 year megaproject.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I do find the cognitave dissonance hilarious here.

“Studies have come out that we’ll be at full capacity in another 20, 25 years on the 407 — that defeats the purpose,” Ford said.

So....How long until this tunnel will be at capacity? LOL

define "at capacity".

I would be surprised if this tunnel operates at full traffic speed on day one, correct.. but will median travel times across the 401 corridor improve over going without it? Almost certianly.