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High Speed Rail: London - Kitchener-Waterloo - Pearson Airport - Toronto

innsertnamehere said:
GO's modifications will be on their corridor east of Pickering however, which is unusable by VIA. VIA uses CN tracks east of Pickering not GO, as the GO tracks end in Oshawa.
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Of course we also can't so easily have HSR sharing tracks with 100+ car freight trains in this area, so there might need to be some interesting modifications done here. Maybe the GO corridor (which is built to high standards anyways; fairly straight and with concrete ties) could be somehow used by HSR also?
 
innsertnamehere said:
GO's modifications will be on their corridor east of Pickering however, which is unusable by VIA. VIA uses CN tracks east of Pickering not GO, as the GO tracks end in Oshawa.
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A large chunk of cost of electrification is bridge modifications (grounding at very least, sometimes rebuilding for clearance); nearby structures also need to be grounded. Another large chunk is the electrical stations.

The actual pantograph wiring damn near free (~$2M/km), and the vertical supports would also likely already be in place spanning all tracks, with GO's wired, which brings that cost down.

The remaining cost in this section is a rounding error for the project.
 
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rbt said:
Yes, VIA periodically brings it up. David Collenette (Minister of Transport 1997–2003) was a huge fan of railways (he gave us the Pearson Express) and VIA did take a look at 320km/h service for the first time under his guidance (Wiki says 1998). The most he managed to fund was a minor package of VIA improvements, which the Conservatives quickly cancelled and reintroduced (now in place) many years later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Canada
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I remember the talk of it around that time, but I didn't know the details. Thanks!

rbt said:
I have no doubt that if the London to Toronto segment begins construction that there will be huge pressure on the Feds and Quebec to assist in extending it East so perhaps a study and detailed designs might start in a few years. I doubt we'd see construction funding until after the London line opens, provided it opens without major issues or cost-overruns.
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Funding may not come through for a while, but I wouldn't be surprised if you hear Trudeau at least talk about it during the election campaign next year. Probably bundled in with whatever infrastructure schtick he does.

rbt said:
Really, it's from Oshawa to Montreal as GO's electrification modifications to Lake Shore East will be usable by HSR at an inner-city speeds.
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Good point. That also means that any HSR to Niagara to connect with whatever is built on the US side would have the same electrified tracks all the way to Hamilton, or at least to Aldershot, via the Lakeshore West line. If the US ever really gets its act together on actually building HSR, I would think that would become a pretty valuable link, and it's a relatively small gap to bridge (Hamilton to Niagara) in the grand scheme of things.
 
Aylmer said:
I very much agree that Ottawa-Kingston is an essential piece of the corridor puzzle. I'm just saying that the environmental sensitivity and relatively difficult terrain don't make the easiest or cheapest of stretches.

I do disagree about having a Toronto-Montreal sans-Ottawa line ― the distance saved is only about 35km, which, at HSR speeds, is only about 5-10 minutes. Considering it means accessing a major population centre, I'd say it's worth it to have Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa on the same line.
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By doing the most expensive and environmentally sensitive part between Kingston and Ottawa first, you can then allow the other less technically challenging pieces to fall in to place relatively easily. Running the line generally east of Highway 15 makes the section more technically feasible than a straight shot through the Frontenac/Rideau Lakes.

Using the current routing of the rail lines, the distance between Kingston-Montreal via Cornwall and Kingston-Montreal via Ottawa is closer to 90km. The current Kingston-Ottawa-Monteal routing would take about 3.5 hours to travel (not including any of the current additional stops or transfers) compared to the 2.5 the Kingston-Cornwall-Ottawa trip does. Without a new rail corridor between Kingston and Smiths Falls, HSR to Ottawa won't happen.
 
The current Ottawa-Kingston route takes a sizeable detour through Brockville (about 40km) and the current Ottawa-Montreal route also meanders a bit more than the old rail corridor to its north (which I was told is actually reserved for an eventual HSR corridor).

I maintain that the marginal time savings of less than 15 minutes would not be worth the cost in redundant infrastructure (two routes from Kingston to Montreal) or the reduced service to Ottawa, especially considering the high Ottawa-Montreal traffic (which I'd wager is more significant than Toronto-Montreal travel, but I have no stats).
 
Adjei said:
Am I reading this wrong or are the Liberals also considering building the high speed rail to Windsor:

We will move forward by finalizing the business cases and proceeding with
environmental assessments*on the line from Toronto to London and between
London and Windsor


http://ontarioliberalplan.ca/wp-con...ing-the-Next-Generation-of-Infrastructure.pdf
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The answer will be based on the business case as well the EA.

You can take it both way, but there no funding for it under the current plan and most likely be a 25 year plan.

I wouldn't put to much faith in the idea at this time, but in the long run, should have happen decades ago. EA's don't happen over night and this one will take a few year as well million of dollars to do to come up with a plan as well a route.
 
Aylmer said:
I very much agree that Ottawa-Kingston is an essential piece of the corridor puzzle. I'm just saying that the environmental sensitivity and relatively difficult terrain don't make the easiest or cheapest of stretches.

I do disagree about having a Toronto-Montreal sans-Ottawa line ― the distance saved is only about 35km, which, at HSR speeds, is only about 5-10 minutes. Considering it means accessing a major population centre, I'd say it's worth it to have Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa on the same line.
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Agree. Omitting Ottawa would be akin to not seeing the forest for the trees. This is a crucial piece of 21st century infrastructure that will spur growth in cities connected to it. Ignoring a metro of 1.4 million (not to mention the nation's capital) to save 5-10 minutes makes little sense.

Cities that HSR by-pass will encounter the same problems that cities that the TCH by passed encountered. They increasingly become off the beaten path and out of the loop. Adding too many stops defeats the purpose of HSR, but you can bet your bottom dollar that places like Kingston and London lobby hard for any HSR line to stop in their city.
 
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There is no rail left to Carleton Place. The Ottawa-Carleton Place CP track was removed in the early 1990s, the Mattawa-Smiths Falls track was removed in 2012.

Ottawa Station is not in a location favourable to commuter rail, being too far from downtown and other employment areas. Commuter buses make much more sense (and there are several to and from Ottawa, using the Transitway, from Clarence-Rockland for example).

This has been discussed elsewhere in UT.
 
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