Golden Horseshoe's local transit systems comparisons

[timio]

That's good to see. I would also like to see expansion to later hours, as Kitchener is a major Canadian city.

Along these lines, I was surprised they didn't stretch route 7 (main spine on King Street from Conestoga Mall in Waterloo to Fairview Park Mall in Kitchener) to earlier to help funnel riders to the first GO train at 5:49. Ridership might increase slightly if they were to do that. But that's another topic altogether.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Along these lines, I was surprised they didn't stretch route 7 (main spine on King Street from Conestoga Mall in Waterloo to Fairview Park Mall in Kitchener) to earlier to help funnel riders to the first GO train at 5:49. Ridership might increase slightly if they were to do that. But that's another topic altogether.

A grid schedule would help ridership immensely.

 

[LNahid2000]

A grid schedule would help ridership immensely.

If you actually look at a map of KW, this isn't possible. There is no grid system for the roads in KW because it was founded by the Germans. Two of the main "parallel" streets, King and Weber, cross 3 times.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

If you actually look at a map of KW, this isn't possible. There is no grid system for the roads in KW because it was founded by the Germans. Two of the main "parallel" streets, King and Weber, cross 3 times.

Ouch. They could at least get an earlier bus out from cambridge to kitchener.

 

[mpd618]

If you actually look at a map of KW, this isn't possible. There is no grid system for the roads in KW because it was founded by the Germans. Two of the main "parallel" streets, King and Weber, cross 3 times.

Despite the issues with the road network (and honestly, KW is great compared to many places that developed before the 18th century), GRT is imposing a grid-like structure on the transit network. That means iXpress routes (the LRT precursor, Fischer-Hallman, University, Conestoga College / Maple Grove, Highland/Victoria, Ottawa) and other routes that are incrementally being aligned to run along major corridors (Westmount, Columbia, Bridgeport/Erb, Lancaster/Bridge, Ira Needles, etc.).

I'm also hoping for GRT night service, but realistically this might not happen until after LRT opens in 2017.

 

[dunkalunk]

If you actually look at a map of KW, this isn't possible. There is no grid system for the roads in KW because it was founded by the Germans. Two of the main "parallel" streets, King and Weber, cross 3 times.

Challenge Accepted.

 

[LNahid2000]

Challenge Accepted.

lol most of those routes don't look very grid-like, and route 8 pretty much looks just as winding as it is now.

 

[ShonTron]

40 rides per capita is pretty typical for smaller, self-contained Canadian cities. Oshawa Transit Commission had around 30 riders per capita back in the day. So St-Catharines isn't that surprising. Manufacturing towns usually have crappy ridership so I guess it is impressive in that sense.

I think places like Mississauga, Brampton, Oakville, etc. are at the most disadvantage because they are not self-contained cities, so their transit systems cannot serve all their residents needs by default. So regional systems like York and Durham are important to overcoming that problem (but on the other hand, both York and Durham have really crappy ridership...).

I think one of the main reasons Mississauga has the most ridership and service in the 905 is simply because it is the most self-contained (55% of Mississauga residents work in Mississauga, compared to 27% who work in Toronto). 46.8 ridership per capita is good considering, but it sucks compared to an entirely self-contained city like for example Winnipeg (79 riders per capita). If 100% Mississauga residents worked in Mississauga, its local transit would be even better.

Btw, I added Oakville to the list. Check it out.

Mississauga feeds the subway quite well (the 1/101/201, 3, 20, 26/76 and 30 to Islington from residential areas and the industrial routes from the subway). That, and the high density along the Hurontario corridor and medium-to-high density between Square One and Etobicoke Creek in the pre-City of Mississauga development (where it resembles North York or Etobicoke in density and planning).

 

[ShonTron]

Well Peel County used to have more municipalities: Port Credit, Streetsville, Clarkson, Malton, Toronto Township, Chinguacousy, etc. But yes, now it's just got 3. And I agree Caledon could easily become part of another Region.

Peel used to be the following:
Towns of Brampton and Port Credit
Villages of Streetsville and Bolton
Townships of Caledon, Albion, Chinguacousy, Toronto Gore, Toronto
(Police village of Malton, between Toronto and Toronto Gore Townships)

Clarkson was never incorporated, or even given police village status.

 

[ShonTron]

Ridership per Capita, 2012
Guelph Transit: 54.1
MiWay: 46.8
Hamilton Street Railway: 45.1
Grand River Transit: 42.1
St. Catharines Transit: 36.5
Brampton Transit: 34.7
York Region Transit: 20.0
Durham Region Transit: 19.1
Oakville Transit: 15.8
Burlington Transit: 13.1
Milton Transit: 3.5

I would use annual service hours to compare amount of service, but that is a lot harder to find, and it is already heavily implied in the ridership numbers anyways.

I wonder if St. Catharines Transit is inflated? It serves the City of Thorold with several routes, but is Thorold's population calculated in its ridership per capita?

 

[doady]

I wonder if St. Catharines Transit is inflated? It serves the City of Thorold with several routes, but is Thorold's population calculated in its ridership per capita?

Their calculation included Thorold.

In 2012, St. Catherines Transit had 5,479,830 riders, service area population of 150,000 (Thorold + St-Catherines), per capita ridership of 36.5.

Their ridership was even higher in 2011 with 5,559,331 riders, so the per capita ridership was 37.1.

2006 ridership was 4,752,760, so it has grown significantly consider the lack of population growth.

I don't think you should be surprised. As I mentioned, it's comparable to the transit ridership of Oshawa (even today, the vast majority of Durham transit ridership is still within the City of Oshawa).

 

[ShonTron]

I'm a bit surprised only because St. Catharines has relatively lousy service, especially evenings and weekends when the 100-series routes are operating; where you're lucky if your route has 30 minute service.

 

[timio]

lol most of those routes don't look very grid-like, and route 8 pretty much looks just as winding as it is now.

I'm of the opinion that 8 should be split up into two routes, either north and south, out east and west. No more of this figure eight nonsense. It only makes sense to locals and only if you've ridden it at least once.

 

[doady]

I'm a bit surprised only because St. Catharines has relatively lousy service, especially evenings and weekends when the 100-series routes are operating; where you're lucky if your route has 30 minute service.

A small city like St. Catherines, they probably don't need high frequency as much, just concentrate on giving everyone a one-seat ride downtown. 30 minutes is good enough for that.

You can look at other small cities, you will see they are similar in ridership:

Guelph Transit: 54.1
Peterborough Transit: 43.0
St. Catherines Transit: 36.5
Thunder Bay Transit: 33.8
Greater Sudbury Transit: 32.2
Kingston Transit: 32.1
Transit Windsor 30.4

That's why I think local systems like Brampton and Mississauga have a harder time attracting riders. They don't have real downtowns and people want to go to Toronto, Vaughan, Oakville, etc, so the chance of giving people a one-seat ride is extremely low. Ssiguy thinks that is an advantage, I think that is a disadvantage.