GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[torontocolin]

Agincourt, Mimico, Scarborough, Eglinton, Weston, and Guildwood all jump out to me as stations where the TTC connections are not great. Mostly they involve walking (often surprisingly far) to the nearest busy street, possibly crossing it, and then waiting at a standard bus stop. Some of these will never be great connections, but I suspect there could be improvements made through things like bus loops, pedestrian bridges, relocated stops and improved shelters, and better timed bus service if Metrolinx and the TTC really wanted to improve the experience. Maybe that comes with some of the RER station improvements.

Not all the stations are bad though. Kipling, Downsview Park, Long Branch, Rouge Hill, Exhibition (if you want to take the streetcar), and Kennedy all jump out as pretty well integrated stations, and in theory Bloor, Caledonia, Mount Dennis, and Oriole will one day join them. Probably Woodbine too.

Apparently Weston-Union will also drop to $4.75. Wonder if that's true of other Toronto stations outside of the 3.70 zone.

 

[robmausser]

Here's a thought.

Most of us here think GO should charge for parking.

This idea generally goes nowhere, because of '905' commuters whose transit choices are often poor vs driving to and parking at the GO stn.

How about charging for parking at all stations inside the 416 (City of Toronto), but offsetting that by extending the $3.70 fare to all trips within Toronto on the GO system.

I'm fairly sure this would actually be a net revenue generator for Metrolinx; with the added bonus of not annoying the '905' folks unduly; and I suspect it would drive much higher ridership inside the City, in turn being a politically beneficial gesture inside Toronto.

Extending this to '905' in the future would wait on better local transit and demand from GO riders in those areas; and might look similar (ie. all trips within York Region at $3.70) or might instead result in pro-rated reduction in distance fares instead.

This is an excellent idea. 416 stations pay for parking but $3 fare. Anywhere in 905 free parking but more expensive fare but still cheaper than driving to 416 stations and parking there.

 

[nfitz]

Apparently Weston-Union will also drop to $4.75. Wonder if that's true of other Toronto stations outside of the 3.70 zone.

Metrolinx is pointing out they are still using the old zone system. Gosh, I hadn't realized that was still around. For reference, the fares for each zone-pair are listed in By-law 2A - https://www.gotransit.com/static_files/gotransit/assets/pdf/Policies/By-Law_No2A.pdf and the stations for each zone are hopefully correct in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GO_Transit_fares#List_of_fare_zones

Which only creates more questions. Weston to Union is Zone 4 to Zone 2. But Bloor is also in Zone 2. Which means that Weston to Bloor (only 7 km) will be $4.75. But elsewhere Metrolinx has said it will be $3.70 from Weston to Bloor.

Meanwhile both Mimico and Long Branch are in Zone 3. So how does that work? If Scarborough to Union (zone 6 to zone 2) is only $3.70, then so is Eglinton to Bloor - about 20 km as the crow flies (and 23 km by rail)! Meanwhile a one-stop 7-km trip from Bloor to Weston would be $4.75?

I'm baffled - perhaps there's changes to the zones?

 

[Northern Light]

Its not so much that the GO stations aren't directly beside major roads, its that the stations themselves are set back fairly substantially from those roads (and I can't speak to all roads near GO stations but St. Clair and Eglinton are actively hostile to pedestrians)

Add to that the challenge of trying to time your arrival to the GO station on a TTC bus to catch the train on 20-30 minute headways, and the need to pay a TTC and GO fare, and I just don't think it makes sense for the vast majority of riders.

My commute from Scarborough to Union is 25 minutes including driving to the station. If I had to catch a TTC bus to get there I expect it would at least double on average.

Lets start by noting that LSE will be 15-minute all-day service in fairly short order, it already is during the weekday mid-day.

Markham Rd Service is already every 10 minutes or better all-day long. Midland service in the area is admittedly less appealing (using Cliffside 20) but is still 11 minute service in rush hour and 16 at mid-day. Though evening and weekends are 20+

I'm not going to suggest that this might not inconvenience you, that's entirely possible, and you would know better than I.

I will suggest it doesn't look like undue hardship for most riders at that station; and further than increased GO patronage with a larger share of said riders via TTC would likely result in frequency improvements on the routes in question.

In the end its a trade that makes sense to me.

 

[Leo_Chan]

This is an excellent idea. 416 stations pay for parking but $3 fare. Anywhere in 905 free parking but more expensive fare but still cheaper than driving to 416 stations and parking there.

This would require non-GO parking lots to have parking enforcement, similar to Walmart next to VMC, to ticket those people who think they can park for free.

 

[torontocolin]

I'm baffled - perhaps there's changes to the zones?

Must be! Maybe they'll put Union in a zone by itself? That way if you travel from Danforth to Mimico, you're crossing multiple zones. There'd have to be some other tweaks too (move Exhibition into a new zone with Mimico, and move Eglinton out of the zone with Scarborough and Danforth) but I think it would make the system work the way they described.

 

[smallspy]

Lets start by noting that LSE will be 15-minute all-day service in fairly short order, it already is during the weekday mid-day.

Markham Rd Service is already every 10 minutes or better all-day long. Midland service in the area is admittedly less appealing (using Cliffside 20) but is still 11 minute service in rush hour and 16 at mid-day. Though evening and weekends are 20+

I'm not going to suggest that this might not inconvenience you, that's entirely possible, and you would know better than I.

I will suggest it doesn't look like undue hardship for most riders at that station; and further than increased GO patronage with a larger share of said riders via TTC would likely result in frequency improvements on the routes in question.

In the end its a trade that makes sense to me.

I don't think that "bobbob911" is complaining so much about the frequencies - although that is also a concern for the time being - but more about how the stations themselves are constructed and laid out.

Scarborough and Eglinton, to give two examples, are about as good as GO gets to connections to surface transit. Sure, they could be better and offer direct access from the platforms to the bus stops overtop of their relative streets. But Guildwood, on the other hand, is terrible, requiring a long walk (about 300m) to the nearest bus stop despite the fact that the west end of the platforms are almost directly underneath Kingston Rd.

And in some cases, GO is actively making the situation worse. The work at Danforth will involve moving the platforms 100 metres further east, away from Main St.

Dan

 

[Northern Light]

I don't think that "bobbob911" is complaining so much about the frequencies - although that is also a concern for the time being - but more about how the stations themselves are constructed and laid out.

Scarborough and Eglinton, to give two examples, are about as good as GO gets to connections to surface transit. Sure, they could be better and offer direct access from the platforms to the bus stops overtop of their relative streets. But Guildwood, on the other hand, is terrible, requiring a long walk (about 300m) to the nearest bus stop despite the fact that the west end of the platforms are almost directly underneath Kingston Rd.

And in some cases, GO is actively making the situation worse. The work at Danforth will involve moving the platforms 100 metres further east, away from Main St.

Dan

The Danforth work, mind you, contemplates a new mid-block connection to Danforth and Main Stn via the Canadian Tire/Main Square lands, as well as a new entrance off Dawes Rd.

I have suggested that giving Main Stn a second exit at Barrington would work well w/this plan in terms of integrated convenience.

Guildwood is a disaster, no arguing that one. Fixing that will probably cost a few $$

 

[robmausser]

This would require non-GO parking lots to have parking enforcement, similar to Walmart next to VMC, to ticket those people who think they can park for free.

Those poor poor businesses

 

[nfitz]

I have suggested that giving Main Stn a second exit at Barrington would work well w/this plan in terms of integrated convenience.

I don't see that happening, as they don't want to put a walkway across the bus lanes. So that would require a tunnel - which is hard to justify for safety reasons. So in the pipe-dream along with a tunnel to near the GO Station itself - which I doubt will never happen until there's significant transfers between the locations. Maybe in another century or two.

Personally, I really don't see any operational need to shift the Danforth GO station further west, as planned. I know they don't like that curve, but in the meantime, they are proposing building new stations on curves ... like the one near Broadview and Eastern.

Hopefully the deferment of new GO stations will push those changes far enough down the pipleline, that they'll decide to use the money more wisely.

That being said, opening up an entrance at Dawes is no more than cutting a hole in the fence to the end of the platform, and whatever legal right-of-way is needed over that roadway to the self-storage. That would make access to the station easier for those in the Danforth/Dawes area.

 

[Northern Light]

I don't see that happening, as they don't want to put a walkway across the bus lanes. So that would require a tunnel - which is hard to justify for safety reasons. So in the pipe-dream along with a tunnel to near the GO Station itself - which I doubt will never happen until there's significant transfers between the locations. Maybe in another century or two.

It would certainly be a set of stairs directly from platform level. This is required in any event as the TTC is required to have a means of egress that does not pass through the mezzanine, in case that were obstructed by fire.

There are other higher priority stations, that lack a second second exit from the platform in any form; or those where said exits are very close together, but Main will be on the list, in another decade or two.

re: Dawes. Metrolinx has the property on the east side of Dawes to my understanding (abutting the tracks). They plan a passenger pick-up/drop-off at that location.

 

[rbt]

This would require non-GO parking lots to have parking enforcement, similar to Walmart next to VMC, to ticket those people who think they can park for free.

Many GO lots are full enough this would be a concern for them anyway.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Those poor poor businesses

View attachment 179441

You mean, in the case VMC, poor Walmart? They're the largest corporation in the world, they should be able to handle parked cars.

 

[robmausser]

You mean, in the case VMC, poor Walmart? They're the largest corporation in the world, they should be able to handle parked cars.

Yes I was being sarcastic.

The issue of illegally parked cars is not the responsibility of anyone but the business where cars are parking illegally. It should have no determination in GO deciding whether to charge for parking. Zilch.

 

[torontocolin]

Guildwood is a disaster, no arguing that one. Fixing that will probably cost a few $$

Guildwood shouldn't actually be that hard to fix. A pedestrian access path from the west end of the platform with access to Kingston road and stops on the side of the bridge. Might require elevators, but it's not impossible. Not cheap, but should be way less expensive than a parking structure, for example. If the Eglinton East LRT is ever built, it would be inexcusable not to do something like this to improve the connection.

Mimico, which has similar access problems, would benefit from a similar solution. A footbridge over Royal York (or even just a light at Judson) and bus stops closer to the access point to the station would be a big improvement.