Streety McCarface
Senior Member
Overhead luggage racks?
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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
steveintoronto
Superstar
I think the comments on leg room were misunderstood. Quad seating wastes a huge amount of potential leg/foot room. And yes, it could be used to stash objects, but that's rarely done. The point is that regular double seating facing the same way, as in an airliner, maximizes foot and leg room for all, and still allows you to stash baggage/objects under your seat/behind your calves. There's a reason airliners and buses lay out their seating that way, the difference for coaches is the need to split the facing direction, usually at mid-point of the coach length, so it offers a choice when not full to pick a seat forward facing.
The only real value of quad seating is when travelling distance with more than one friend, or if there's a table provided to work on that can be shared by all in that quad space. Otherwise quad seating is very inefficient use of very limited space. As much as airliners cram you in (to up the 'carriage ratio' per area), most trains still offer you more leg room, but in tighter quad seating, that leg room is contentious with others, especially with the service channel/raceway taking up half the leg room on the window side.
I still don't see an answer from anyone on what the window passenger is to do with their window side leg! I have to question the design and engineering savvy of BBD leaving that conduit box there. It's an obvious design fault, but since they're not addressing it, the seat layout should be.
Pic from GO Transit
The bottom line remains: Until more service capacity is provided, standing room v sitting is going to have to increase. And it is. For all the limitations of GO Transit, it's a world-wide trend, save perhaps for some of the lushly subsidized US carriers in the SW, and some European nations where reservations are required (yes, even for commuter peak) and the nations that long ago have realized the necessity of keeping cars off the roads, people on transit, and the well invested costs to make that happen. They also have a higher standard of living and average income per cap than we do. Coincidence? Methinks not...
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reaperexpress
Senior Member
Exactly, quad seating is simply wasteful. Every other row on the upper and middle levels should be rotated to allow the space behind the seats to be used to expand legroom. No change in the number or size of seats, but more legroom for passengers. The lower level can remain as-is to provide a social space for groups, away from the Quiet Zone.
Here's a marked-up drawing to show what we're talking about:
steveintoronto
Superstar
Mon Dieu!
As per seat arrangements, and innovation, here's something to consider, comments please:
As per seat arrangements, and innovation, here's something to consider, comments please:
steveintoronto
Superstar
That, plus when not facing each other, your legs have unambiguous access to the space under the seat in front of you. Quad seating, unless you have no legs, means there's always a conflict with whoever is seated opposite...unless that table is there. W/o the table (and ostensibly a premium fare for it) quad seating doesn't make sense for those wishing a 'quiet zone' and maximum leg room per seat pitch.
Agreed on upper and lower decks having different optimal demands.
As per the "fold-up seat" posted above...I've seen and used that somewhere else. Did TTC subways have them in the past? (And I don't mean the blue seating). I might be thinking of European trains, perhaps one of the US systems. Better than standing without, but remember them becoming tedious after an amount of time. Mind you, I find that on the TTC and Metrolinx DD seats too. The only exception that comes to mind is the MCI GO coaches. Now they are comfortable!
reaperexpress
Senior Member
My guess is that the issue at Silver Junction isn't the junction per se, it's the GO platform. My understanding is that the north platform is considered within the GO Transit yard, which means trains have to operate at yard speed. This doesn't apply to VIA because they use the south platform, clearly outside the yard. I wonder what would be required in order to designate the two GO Transit through tracks as mainline tracks rather than yard tracks...
crs1026
Superstar
Exactly. The solution is simply to signalise the GO platforms. At present, GO trains “disappear” from the signalling when they enter the platform tracks, which are a dead zone. At present, the signalling does not protect movements within the GO station, so movements have to operate protecting themselves....yard restrictions.
- Paul
timio
Active Member
That makes sense. The speed drops to yard speed right around the switch to the mainline. Why would GO install the new tracks direct into the yard without signalling? Seems like an oversight that is now causing a few minutes of delay on what is a very long trip to begin with.
crs1026
Superstar
Possibly so that the switches to the layover tracks are yard switches, not controlled track switches, and can be operated manually without any paperwork or contact with the RTC.
But yeah, add the enhancements and save a couple minutes.
- Paul
APTA-2048
Senior Member
Some of the seats do tip up on the lower level of the new BiLevels. However, I came across a study that said most passengers choose to still use the seats despite crowding. So the extra space you are theoretically creating is not there. You'll surely notice this when taking the subway. Also, prior to the T1s and TRs with their accessibility seating (and the retrofitted H6s), the only tip-up seats were for the guards.
As for the quads, I like them. Outside of rush hour there is obviously more room and the space feels more open. In rush hour, of course I have to sit more upright and occasionally touch someone's knees, but I don't care. The space still feels open. Riding the LIRR and Metro North with their 2+3 seats where half face each direction for half the car, I felt less comfortable. The space, with the addition of overhead parcel racks, felt more closed.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Agree with most of your points, as I have many times here previously, but the point of Metrolinx's admission of (gist) "only 66% of passengers get a seat" is the point I'm addressing.
Some posters say the answer is to provide more trains. I agree. They're not coming. So either more seats are provided within the same space, or more standing room, or more won't get a ride at all. That's the choice, and I'm just the messenger.
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20150625/2015-06-19_Annual_Report_201415.pdf Pg 14
If anyone has a more up-to-date figure, please provide.
I've yet to see an answer on where to put the leg next to the window with the service conduit intruding.
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smallspy
Senior Member
steveintoronto
Superstar
Perhaps, but that still doesn't answer the question on quad seating, and how to deal with lack of leg space. "Go without heat" is an obvious avoidance of answering a relatively easy engineering fix. The heating is electric, and it can be placed under the seating, like other makes of coaches do. Where is it on the new streetcars? The wasted space under the quad seating is a perfect place for it.
BBD already have the answers, it's just that Ontario is unwillingly to pay for the upgrades: (Note this much newer unit-train design is where the newer seats are coming from. It's the one with the fold-up seats by the doors featured in a pic I posted prior)
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DonValleyRainbow
Senior Member
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I perfectly understand the yard issue, but what happened was that we crawled past the switch, and continued to crawl (westbound) to almost Trafalgar (~1 km), so waaayyy beyond the switch. Coulda been a fluke, it'd help to have the perspective of a regular commuter.
timio
Active Member
Depends on the car you were in. West car, yes. East car, until the engine is past the switch.
I usually sit on car 3/4 from the west. One day, I sat in the east most car and thought that we were going much faster than usual, but realized I was just closer to the engine, so it only seemed faster.
I usually sit on car 3/4 from the west. One day, I sat in the east most car and thought that we were going much faster than usual, but realized I was just closer to the engine, so it only seemed faster.