GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[nfitz]

^ Did the January schedule change remove two coaches some of the PM peak Kitchener Line trains? I remember seeing the Minister tweet that "two coaches would be added" to some runs.

Yes - if you look at the December 24th version of the website at https://web.archive.org/web/2018122...ng/go-service-updates/train-schedule-changes#

It says that the "The 5:02 p.m. trip from Union will be extended to Kitchener GO. .. The number of train coaches on this trip will now be 10 instead of 12 to align with train storage capacity in Kitchener".

Also the 3:35 PM train from Union to Georgetown was extended to Kitchener, and changed from 10 to 12 coaches.

The big afternoon issue however, is that instead of departures at 4:50, 5:02, and 5:20, providing 3 departures in the peak 30 minutes, the schedule was spread out with 4:35, 5:02, and 5:27 departures. Also the 4:50 (now 4:35) was shortened from Kitchener to Georgetown ... which pushed many of the 4:50 passengers onto the now shorter 5:02 train. I'd guess that relatively full 12-car train, then had enough riders for 18-20 cars ... someone who finishes work at 4:30 can make a 4:50 train ... but 4:35?

Also in the AM the eastbound 5:47 AM from Georgetown was changed from 12 to 10 coaches, but the 6:48 AM from Georgetown was changed from 10 to 12 coaches - though that sounds like an improvement to me!

 

[Leo_Chan]

Yes - if you look at the December 24th version of the website at https://web.archive.org/web/2018122...ng/go-service-updates/train-schedule-changes#

It says that the "The 5:02 p.m. trip from Union will be extended to Kitchener GO. .. The number of train coaches on this trip will now be 10 instead of 12 to align with train storage capacity in Kitchener".

Also the 3:35 PM train from Union to Georgetown was extended to Kitchener, and changed from 10 to 12 coaches.

The big afternoon issue however, is that instead of departures at 4:50, 5:02, and 5:20, providing 3 departures in the peak 30 minutes, the schedule was spread out with 4:35, 5:02, and 5:27 departures. Also the 4:50 (now 4:35) was shortened from Kitchener to Georgetown ... which pushed many of the 4:50 passengers onto the now shorter 5:02 train. I'd guess that relatively full 12-car train, then had enough riders for 18-20 cars ... someone who finishes work at 4:30 can make a 4:50 train ... but 4:35?

Also in the AM the eastbound 5:47 AM from Georgetown was changed from 12 to 10 coaches, but the 6:48 AM from Georgetown was changed from 10 to 12 coaches - though that sounds like an improvement to me!

I really hate how GO uses the same URL for service updates.

 

[smallspy]

^ Did the January schedule change remove two coaches some of the PM peak Kitchener Line trains?

Only one train - for the rest of the trains, the cycling was such that they weren't stored overnight in a location that would allow them to park a 12-car train. The 5.02 train that short-turned at Mount Pleasant was the only one.

The January changes "fixed" at least one of the Kitchener trains in that it would always be overnighted at Shirley Street, and thus allowed it to become a 12-car set. It sounds like they've changed the cycling in the past week so that the other 4 trains always start and finish from the same yard now, too.

Dan

 

[Krypto98]

Only one train - for the rest of the trains, the cycling was such that they weren't stored overnight in a location that would allow them to park a 12-car train. The 5.02 train that short-turned at Mount Pleasant was the only one.

The January changes "fixed" at least one of the Kitchener trains in that it would always be overnighted at Shirley Street, and thus allowed it to become a 12-car set. It sounds like they've changed the cycling in the past week so that the other 4 trains always start and finish from the same yard now, too.

Dan

It is my understanding that Georgetown has 3 spots for trains at its yard but they are only starting 2 trains at georgetown now and how many spots for trains do they have at Kitchener?

 

[timio]

It is my understanding that Georgetown has 3 spots for trains at its yard but they are only starting 2 trains at georgetown now and how many spots for trains do they have at Kitchener?

6. 2 at Park Street and 4 at Shirley Street.

 

[robmausser]

Small bit of trivia - some midday trains already run with 12 cars. That’s a bit of overkill for current ridership, but as @smallspy points out, it’s all about how the equipment needs to be cycled.

- Paul

Yes exactly.

The midday runs are not full for 6 car runs, but some midday trains are actually deadheads, ie: 12 car rush hour trains that are returning to their yards to be used in the morning/afternoon peak.

 

[smallspy]

It is my understanding that Georgetown has 3 spots for trains at its yard but they are only starting 2 trains at georgetown now and how many spots for trains do they have at Kitchener?

There are actually 4 spots for storing trains at Georgetown, but the 4th is the quasi-mainline track on the north side of the double-tracked mainline.

6. 2 at Park Street and 4 at Shirley Street.

Of those, all 4 spots at Georgetown and the 2 at Park Street - which is supposed to be temporary - are only capable of holding 10-car trains. The yard at Shirley was designed and built for 12-car trains.

Dan

 

[timio]

The 5:02 train I was on the other day continued west from the Kitchener station, suggesting that Park street can hold at least one 12 car train.

 

[Krypto98]

There are actually 4 spots for storing trains at Georgetown, but the 4th is the quasi-mainline track on the north side of the double-tracked mainline.



Of those, all 4 spots at Georgetown and the 2 at Park Street - which is supposed to be temporary - are only capable of holding 10-car trains. The yard at Shirley was designed and built for 12-car trains.

Dan

I tried my best to make a reasonable rush hour schedule knowing the storage capacity of both the Kitchener Yards and the Georgetown ones. 6 Trains starting at Kitchener and 3 starting at Georgetown. With the pocket track at Bramalea(hopefully that will be finished eventually) and the one At Mount Pleasant you can have a train starting there too and then in the afternoon turning back and either deadheading to Union or being counter peak service trains(or super-express trains like on the Lakeshore lines). The schedule i made up doesn't really require much explaining but there are 3 express trains with one being express from Bramalea and the other 2 being express from Malton. I included VIA Rail 87 just because it runs during the rush hour and to show it doesn't conflict with the other trains.
As for Car lengths:
The 3 Trains from Georgetown would be 10 car trains.
The train from Mount Pleasant can be 10 or 12
The train from Bramalea can be either 10 or 6 cars, 12 seems like overkill.
You can have 4 12 car trains on the Kitchener yard so i would put 3 of the express trains as 12 car, and maybe the 6:30 departure as 12 car, The other 2 can be 10 cars
In the afternoon, the 3 express trains and either the 6pm or 4:04 can have 12 car trains. The rest with 10 cars.

 

[Streety McCarface]

There are actually 4 spots for storing trains at Georgetown, but the 4th is the quasi-mainline track on the north side of the double-tracked mainline.



Of those, all 4 spots at Georgetown and the 2 at Park Street - which is supposed to be temporary - are only capable of holding 10-car trains. The yard at Shirley was designed and built for 12-car trains.

Dan

Are all the tracks at the Shirley facility capable of handling 12 car trains? I thought it was just the outer two.

I tried my best to make a reasonable rush hour schedule knowing the storage capacity of both the Kitchener Yards and the Georgetown ones. 6 Trains starting at Kitchener and 3 starting at Georgetown. With the pocket track at Bramalea(hopefully that will be finished eventually) and the one At Mount Pleasant you can have a train starting there too and then in the afternoon turning back and either deadheading to Union or being counter peak service trains(or super-express trains like on the Lakeshore lines). The schedule i made up doesn't really require much explaining but there are 3 express trains with one being express from Bramalea and the other 2 being express from Malton. I included VIA Rail 87 just because it runs during the rush hour and to show it doesn't conflict with the other trains.
As for Car lengths:
The 3 Trains from Georgetown would be 10 car trains.
The train from Mount Pleasant can be 10 or 12
The train from Bramalea can be either 10 or 6 cars, 12 seems like overkill.
You can have 4 12 car trains on the Kitchener yard so i would put 3 of the express trains as 12 car, and maybe the 6:30 departure as 12 car, The other 2 can be 10 cars
In the afternoon, the 3 express trains and either the 6pm or 4:04 can have 12 car trains. The rest with 10 cars. View attachment 171557
View attachment 171556

This is a really interesting concept, I am liking it, but a few things,
What train is the yellow express? Does it deadhead back to Georgetown or something?

I feel like some of the time estimates are quite conservative, especially for the express trains. In the past, the 16:50 from union could.d reach Kitchener within 1 hr and 50 minutes, but would often arrive 1hr and 40 minutes after leaving Union. Some of the other times (16:14 for instance) have the train arriving back in Kitchener within 1hr and 59 minutes. Usually this trip will take 2hrs and 10 minutes but will often be closer to 2hrs and 5 minutes.

Otherwise, a very interesting layout.

 

[smallspy]

The 5:02 train I was on the other day continued west from the Kitchener station, suggesting that Park street can hold at least one 12 car train.

Park Street can not hold more than a 10-car train on each of its tracks. What I suspect that you saw was a move to prep the train to run back east to Shirley Street.

Are all the tracks at the Shirley facility capable of handling 12 car trains? I thought it was just the outer two.

Each of the tracks at Shirley Street can hold a 12-car train.

Dan

 

[Allandale25]

If you go to 11:35 in this video below the Minister takes questions on the changes to the Kitchener Line schedule. He noted that Metrolinx turned "an express run line into a milk run line", which I find a little surprising because I would have assumed he would have been aware of the change and signed off on it. He's also requested that they [Metrolinx] "expedite additional runs" on the Kitchener Line so that we can "return an express line [trip?] as soon as possible". Later he says "we have expressed with Metrolinx to work on getting us another, um, another line, an express line this time and they've made changes to their modeling program going forward."

I wonder how long it will take to add the express trip back in given the discussion we've had here about crew change schedules, CN providing track availability, etc.

https://globalnews.ca/video/4867626/focus-ontario-congested-lanes-crowded-trains

 

[steveintoronto]

^ Just running out the door, but the whole vid looks like a gem. Will watch it all later. It was painful watching the part you indicate, he's completely out of his depth, and frankly it was a struggle to follow his logic, if indeed it was that.

Great find!

 

[Krypto98]

What train is the yellow express? Does it deadhead back to Georgetown or something?

That's Via Rail 87, I just put it on for reference, I can make another version without it if its confusing people.

I feel like some of the time estimates are quite conservative, especially for the express trains. In the past, the 16:50 from union could.d reach Kitchener within 1 hr and 50 minutes, but would often arrive 1hr and 40 minutes after leaving Union. Some of the other times (16:14 for instance) have the train arriving back in Kitchener within 1hr and 59 minutes. Usually this trip will take 2hrs and 10 minutes but will often be closer to 2hrs and 5 minutes.

I used the same timings as the actual schedule posted. In my experience riding the 4:50 Express we usually arrived at kitchener at 6:45-6:50

 

[Krypto98]

That's Via Rail 87, I just put it on for reference, I can make another version without it if its confusing people.


I used the same timings as the actual schedule posted. In my experience riding the 4:50 Express we usually arrived at kitchener at 6:45-6:50

Redid them with just Go Transit Trains this time, I might make one with early morning counter/ afternoon counter peak and evening trains. Wasn't the plan in the Business Case to have 15 minute service to Bramalea Go and Hourly up to Mount Pleasant?