GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[mdrejhon]

I think the best use for this is more diversified than a "GO Train". In time, it could be an express public transit route between Cambridge & Guelph, utilizing DMUs or Hydrail, in the era of the HSR. Most riders would probably be commuting between Guelph and Cambridge, but would double as a HSR connection option.

But this is probably when the HSR is eventually built.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

probably a consultant report.

It's pure politics because the new transport minister is a Cambridge MPP. The reality is that bringing service to Cambridge will cost an arm and a leg and have very low ridership.

Edit: Especially since this isn't a Milton line extension. Travel times on that are going to be huge by the time it gets up to Guelph.

It would create a huge bottleneck in Guelph. You only got space for two tracks right now from the junction of those lines to Guelph Central. With current service levels, it could work, but you'd have to commission a south platform at Guelph Central. But then you have the Halton sub bottleneck.

If it's only a couple trains to serve a low ridership in the interim, it will work. But it certainly is not a long-term solution.

What it does do is serve regional ridership between Cambridge and Guelph. Now they need to step up and do it properly, and serve the entire K-W/Cambridge/Guelph triangle with regular buses in all directions.

 

[Allandale25]

^ But would it still be a bottleneck at Guelph (I'm not familiar with that the station area looks like) if some RDCs/UP Express type DMU trainsets terminated at Guelph? IE they had tracks that didn't touch or were separate from the main line for GO/VIA/HSR?

 

[mdrejhon]

^ But would it still be a bottleneck at Guelph (I'm not familiar with that the station area looks like) if some RDCs/UP Express type DMU trainsets terminated at Guelph? IE they had tracks that didn't touch or were separate from the main line for GO/VIA/HSR?

That's what I was thinking. UPX-style DMUs or Hydrail. Not a massive GO train.
(I don't want hydrail for mainline GO electrification -- but branch lines are fine)

Basically, frequent all-day 2-way rapid transit between Guelph and Cambridge.

Terminating at Guelph, terminating at Cambridge.

IMHO, frequency+small is better than a infrequent+big. Can double as a GO/HSR connector too. Really serves the region, connects multiple universities, and avoids contention with the GO/HSR mainline. Most residents will take the transfer if they knew it was an all-day train

And yes, the bus/LRT connections needs to be upgraded. Fortunately, the tri-cities area has grand plans for that already.

• LRT between Waterloo-Kitchener-Cambridge (Phase 1 + Phase 2)
• Express Train betweeen Cambridge-Guelph (this proposal)
• GO RER all-day 2-way between Kitchener-Breslau-Guelph
• HSR between Kitchener-Guelph->(Pearson,Union).

All that! Now throw in all the bus connections to all this rail meshing.

Incredible.

That really truly sets up the region to (eventually) really warrant the HSR, and greatly densify the region. And Tri-Cities truly becomes Four-Cities when truly connected like this.

 

[gweed123]

Absolutely. This actually makes a lot more sense than having the border crossing on the American side since there will be a lot more Americans going to Niagara Falls ON than Canadians going to Niagara Falls NY.

The only reason I suggested using the American side is that unlike us, they already put in the effort to build a new train station with customs facilities.

Very true. But on the other hand, the Canadian side also has the potential for a connecting commuter rail service. I don't see the American side having that, well, ever.

 

[gweed123]

The big problem I have is kids. And where do they want to sit on the train. Always on the top - which is fine, as it's always emptier. And I'm supposed to tell them they can't? No, not happening.

When I used to take the train, I always sat on the top level, because sometimes I liked to nap on my way home from work. It happened more than once where a family with younger kids decided to sit right next across from me, with the kids making noise the entire ride. So much for my nap.

I can see why you wouldn't want to make your kids upset, but is that really a good reason to make most of the other people on the top deck upset instead?

 

[TOareaFan]

When I used to take the train, I always sat on the top level, because sometimes I liked to nap on my way home from work. It happened more than once where a family with younger kids decided to sit right next across from me, with the kids making noise the entire ride. So much for my nap.

I can see why you wouldn't want to make your kids upset, but is that really a good reason to make most of the other people on the top deck upset instead?

I think there is general agreement that the common courtesy should prevail.....but we also seem to be in agreement that the bottom of trains fills up faster.....so if a family gets on the train and the only seats are upstairs...why/when does their right to a seat/comfortable journey take a backseat to someone else's right to a nap on a train?

Like I said before, I don't get quiet zones so I might be looking at it from a skewed perspective.....but I really don't understand why on public transit system with no tiering of service levels or fares one group (which I bet is smaller than we think) gets to assert their wishes over others so easily.

 

[mdrejhon]

As a compromise, in a difficult rock-and-hard-place situation -- I would use this as a teaching moment.

"We're only allowed to go upstairs if we're quiet."

(Shows kids the big "Quiet Zone" logo sign).

"You still want to sit up here? OK. We need to be quiet. Some people up here are more tired than Dad here, working 12 hour days."

"Oh. Okay, mom."

Some kids are really good. It's the annoying ones in the quad behind you that you remember -- but we never remember the good quiet kids sitting on the opposite-edge quad.

There's also always "Here's headphones. You can keep watching Trollhunters." if your kid hasn't yet exceeded bonus screen time for the weekend, but try to resist the temptation. Resist. Resist.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I think there is general agreement that the common courtesy should prevail.....but we also seem to be in agreement that the bottom of trains fills up faster.....so if a family gets on the train and the only seats are upstairs...why/when does their right to a seat/comfortable journey take a backseat to someone else's right to a nap on a train?

Like I said before, I don't get quiet zones so I might be looking at it from a skewed perspective.....but I really don't understand why on public transit system with no tiering of service levels or fares one group (which I bet is smaller than we think) gets to assert their wishes over others so easily.

No one is keeping kids away from the upper levels if they follow the requirement of relative silence - at issue is noise, not usage. It is up to the parents to ensure proper behaviour in the public - having kids is not a pass or a special entitlement for violating rules that everyone else have to follow.

And if there is anything, adults far outnumber kids as users M-F, surely we don't want to talk about "asserting the wishes over others" that loudly.

AoD

 

[TOareaFan]

No one is keeping kids away from the upper levels if they follow the requirement of relative silence - at issue is noise, not usage. It is up to the parents to ensure proper behaviour in the public - having kids is not a pass or a special entitlement for violating rules that everyone else have to follow.

AoD

the "rules" in the case are very difficult for any parent to manage.

Perhaps the problem is that the the quiet zone is just too large....maybe it should be the upper level of every other car? or maybe just that area (have no idea what it is called) half way up....not the lower not the upper but the bit above the wheels where the cars connect.

 

[wopchop]

Christ, everybody just complains about everything nowadays. Quiet zone is BS PR and as mentioned above, not enforceable. Fact that it is only for rush hour is proof of that. Be as loud as you want on late night trains I guess, eh./?

I'm not advocating deliberately being a noisy bastard, but the people that give you death glares for normal-level speaking need to get over themselves.

If you need to sleep, go to bed earlier. You dont have some inalienable right to be able to use the train as your bed.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Christ, everybody just complains about everything nowadays. Quiet zone is BS PR and as mentioned above, not enforceable. I'm not advocating deliberately being a noisy bastard, but the people that give you death glares for normal-level speaking need to get over themselves.

If you need to sleep, go to bed earlier

It's all about degree of reasonableness - it's unreasonable to expect absolute pin drop silence or a prohibition on hushed conversation, but loud talking and screaming kids is a pretty fair no-no. It is the insistence of engaging in the latter as of right that is unfortunate.

AoD

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

^ But would it still be a bottleneck at Guelph (I'm not familiar with that the station area looks like) if some RDCs/UP Express type DMU trainsets terminated at Guelph? IE they had tracks that didn't touch or were separate from the main line for GO/VIA/HSR?

I wasn't even touching HSR. I'm just thinking two trains during the rush hour, just in the interim. You could probably slot it in through Guelph no problem. Again, Halton is the bottleneck.

And all of it is ignoring the long-term fix, I think we all agree on that.

 

[nfitz]

Public transportation is the sacrifice of personal space and convenience for the greater good. The environment should default to being the most other-considerate of public spaces, especially on subways/trains where opportunities to move away or disembark entirely are limited.
[Which is not to say no talking and no fun - just consideration of others]

Sure consideration of others.

But some people have some really bizarre thoughts - I've heard people complaining before about just overhearing other people talking. Can you imagine? And this voluntary Quiet Zone garbage just encourages such sociopathic behaviour - leading to more than one pulling the emergency strip because someone else was using a mobile phone! LOL!

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Sure consideration of others.

But some people have some really bizarre thoughts - I've heard people complaining before about just overhearing other people talking. Can you imagine? And this voluntary Quiet Zone garbage just encourages such sociopathic behaviour - leading to more than one pulling the emergency strip because someone else was using a mobile phone! LOL!

So, you just laughed off and tossed aside general good behaviour as "garbage" and then proceed to talk about sociopathy.

AoD