GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[crs1026]

They can easily bump ridership by 10% just by stopping in Hamilton. It's squarely in the middle of the route.
Toronto-Hamilton weekend 2-way train service AND Hamilton-Niagara weekend 2-way train service!
**Tapping feet - giddyup, Metrolinx - nudge, nudge**

I took this picture a couple of weeks ago - I went down to see for myself what was so damned difficult that GO/CN had never got around to tying in the east end of the station tracks at West Harbour.

A little layman's inspection told the tale. It would likely mean messing with the existing CN Hamilton interlocking, which lies immediately to the east. This junction is several decades' old and is likely due for replacement eventually - much of the old freight CTC is being upgraded to LED signals, microprocessor-based circuitry, with the capability for PTC when that is eventually rolled out in Canada. Replacing the interlocking means installing a whole new CTC "machine", which is not cheap and has to be purpose built for that track layout. The configuration and underlying circuitry of the approach signals has to be revisited if you mess with the plant, also. CN would likely use the opportunity to revisit what configuration of crossovers it wanted. GO will want higher speed crossovers, which take up more space. The fact that it hasn't been touched makes me think that CN has left it until GO has its designs for the Niagara service figured out.

One can also see that there are utilities to be relocated. The pier for that next road overpass is a constraint, too.

None of this is insurmountable, but it's an honest amount of design and field work. Doing something as a "patch" just to facilitate weekend summer Niagara service, and then redoing later, to meet the long term needs of GO and CN when the time comes, would waste a lot of money. Sadly, this one has to wait for the right priority slot in the work program.

Lastly, the train in the picture is part of the story. That roadswitcher makes pickups and deliveries to the industries in the zone from Hamilton eastwards over past Stoney Creek. It spends a couple of hours or more on the main line in that zone, mid-day, every day, to do its work. During that time, one main line is blocked. CN may not find it practical to shift that train to midnights, when the industries it serves may be closed. So, the mainline capacity is indeed limited during the time that GO and VIA needs it.

I wish it were otherwise, but the additional connection is not a trivial task. It's more than just not "getting to it".

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

I saw this tweet from a journalist:

.@Metrolinx tells @CityNews if the Bayview extension or the DVP is flooded over the next 24+hrs they're preparing to reroute GO trains.

Anyone have a sense of where they would reroute the trains? Up the Barrie sub and then across the York Sub (similar to what VIA Rail's "The Canadian" does when leaving Toronto)?

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Anyone have a sense of where they would reroute the trains? Up the Barrie sub and then across the York Sub (similar to what VIA Rail's "The Canadian" does when leaving Toronto)?

Lol. I was going to say Stouffville line, but apparently they tore up the wye! Oops.

If they are doing it from the Barrie line, they would have to stop north of the York sub, reverse onto it, and then keep going. Not sure if it would take more or less time than taking Kitchener line which has a direct wye (assuming no conflicts with CN going from south to north side of the York sub).

 

[Allandale25]

Recent article on GO train service for Niagara Region:

Region forging ahead with new GO Transit implementation office
Agreement with Metrolinx needed to define roles, responsibilities: Tripp

May 09, 2017 12:05 by Paul Forsyth Niagara This Week - St. Catharines

NIAGARA — Regional politicians have given the green light to the creation of a new office to focus on extending GO Transit daily commuter rail service to Niagara.

Regional Chair Alan Caslin, meanwhile, said on Tuesday he’s convinced GO trains can be rumbling into Niagara Falls and St. Catharines two years earlier than is planned right now.

The region has already committed $40 million to extend the train service here as its commitment to fund one-third of the cost of the expansion, which provincial transportation minister Steven Del Duca announced last June.

But hopes the service could be extended here as early as this year were dampened when Del Duca said the trains won’t reach Grimsby until 2021 and won’t reach the St. Catharines and Grimsby train stations until 2023 at the latest.

At the region’s public works committee on Tuesday, politicians agreed to the creation of the new office and the filling of the positions of project director and project co-ordinator as five-year, full-time jobs.

But they held off on approving the hiring of other staff recommended by regional public works commissioner Ron Tripp, with some politicians such as St. Catharines Coun. Bruce Timms and Niagara Falls Coun. Bob Gale saying a new report from Tripp on the issue simply didn’t have enough details on the costs associated with filling positions such as a full-time transportation lead for three to five years, a full-time planning lead for two to three years, finance support staff, and legal support.

Tripp said there will also be costs associated with external consulting services.

Right now, Tripp said the only dollar figure earmarked for hirings is $1.1 million over five years.

“We are doing a disservice to the taxpayer if we okay this with this level of detail,” said Gale. “I want this as much as anyone else…(but) there’s not enough detail in here.”

Tripp said getting a project director and project co-ordinator on board is “absolutely essential” for the region to enter into what’s known as a memorandum of understanding with Metrolinx — the province’s agency set up to oversee long-term, sustainable transportation — to clearly define roles and responsibilities for both parties in the GO expansion.

At the suggestion of Welland Mayor Frank Campion, the committee held off on approving any other positions being filled until that agreement with Metrolinx is signed. That decision needs to be ratified by the full regional council.

Caslin cautioned about politicians meddling in operational details, noting Niagara officials just met with Metrolinx to push the expansion into St. Catharines and Niagara by 2021 in light of Niagara recently landing the 2021 Canada Summer Games.

“They didn’t commit to that but they did take note of that, and they were very interested in knowing that we’re going to have that (games) opportunity,” said Caslin.

“I fully expect with some continued effort on our part of moving this forward in an expedited manner, that we could see the train here in 2021 all the way to Niagara Falls.”

Caslin noted Metrolinx plans improvements to the train stations in St. Catharines and Niagara Falls this year, but said the region isn’t yet prepared for that work.

St. Catharines Mayor Walter Sendzik said it’s important that regional staff come back with more detailed financial information on what it will cost to fill the GO office positions. But he agreed time is of the essence.

“We need this office,” he said. “We need it properly staffed and properly budgeted. “We can’t wait another two or three months to get people hired,” said Sendzik. “We need them hired today.”

 

[cbrown2009]

Hmmm... nothing new for a while yet. As for "negotiations" with CN concerning the Kitchener corridor. Wondering if it makes sense to run evening & weekend trains Bramalea to Union instead of Mount Pleasant, at least for now, since it seems to be proving more difficult than anticipated to get through the corridor west of Bramalea.
Is deadheading trains down from Mount Pleasant/Georgetown during the evenings or weekends an issue? I would assume it would be, because if it weren't, getting revenue trains through wouldn't be all that different. Is it more of an issue to bring trains up from Willowbrook? Are there trains available for use at Willowbrook? IMHO, getting buses to not have to run all the way downtown would be a key step, even if trains can't get all the way to MP right now. Otherwise, at this rate, there may be no more additional train service until the freight bypass is built, eight or so years from now, which would be unfortunate on several levels.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Hmmm... nothing new for a while yet. As for "negotiations" with CN concerning the Kitchener corridor. Wondering if it makes sense to run evening & weekend trains Bramalea to Union instead of Mount Pleasant, at least for now, since it seems to be proving more difficult than anticipated to get through the corridor west of Bramalea.
Is deadheading trains down from Mount Pleasant/Georgetown during the evenings or weekends an issue? I would assume it would be, because if it weren't, getting revenue trains through wouldn't be all that different. Is it more of an issue to bring trains up from Willowbrook? Are there trains available for use at Willowbrook? IMHO, getting buses to not have to run all the way downtown would be a key step, even if trains can't get all the way to MP right now. Otherwise, at this rate, there may be no more additional train service until the freight bypass is built, eight or so years from now, which would be unfortunate on several levels.

It should be Mount Pleasant. They have to cover the whole city.

 

[cbrown2009]

It should be Mount Pleasant. They have to cover the whole city.

Not saying it shouldn't. But if it's taking this long to "negotiate" 4-5 hourly round trips between Bramalea and Mount Pleasant in the evenings, and hourly weekend trips, is there merit to running to Bramalea in the short term? Is no trains a better option than trains that at least get to Brampton, if not all the way to Mount Pleasant? I think I'd rather have trains, even part way, than none.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Not saying it shouldn't. But if it's taking this long to "negotiate" 4-5 hourly round trips between Bramalea and Mount Pleasant in the evenings, and hourly weekend trips, is there merit to running to Bramalea in the short term? Is no trains a better option than trains that at least get to Brampton, if not all the way to Mount Pleasant? I think I'd rather have trains, even part way, than none.

There is. But they had the Bramlea trips in the mid 2000s and it was not that popular, which is my fear. I agree, but I don't think others will, and they're right to feel that way.

 

[cbrown2009]

There is. But they had the Bramlea trips in the mid 2000s and it was not that popular, which is my fear. I agree, but I don't think others will, and they're right to feel that way.

Well that service was nowhere near as frequent as it would be now, especially building off of the midday service. Even with service to MP, Bramalea is the #1 stop within Brampton and the train bus can bring Mp and Brampton passengers to Bramalea & vies versa. And, like I said, I only suggest this as an alternative because evening & weekend train service to MP was supposed to have started last month but didn't and seems to be nowhere in sight at present, although ML and CN are in "daily negotiations."

 

[ShonTron]

Not saying it shouldn't. But if it's taking this long to "negotiate" 4-5 hourly round trips between Bramalea and Mount Pleasant in the evenings, and hourly weekend trips, is there merit to running to Bramalea in the short term? Is no trains a better option than trains that at least get to Brampton, if not all the way to Mount Pleasant? I think I'd rather have trains, even part way, than none.

I lived in Brampton, and I much prefer the half-hourly direct bus service to Union Station than having to transfer at Bramalea to hourly (or worse) trains. The bus is faster, especially since most buses to Downtown Brampton and Shoppers are routed via Highway 410, skipping Bramalea and Malton.

I really hated the Bramalea short turn service.

 

[TOareaFan]

If they can get trains into Bramalea station (not clear they can because, as I understand it, the part of the corridor they own ends east of Bramalea not the station itself...so they still have to negotiate with CN) a really simple, interim, solution is just run short, frequent, weekend trains from Bramalea to Weston...co-ordinate the schedules with UP so there is minimal dwell time. People heading downtown from Brampton on weekends would just either drive or take BT to Bramalea....not ideal but something....I do agree with ShonTron that for evening service you won't get too many people abandoning the bus service to parts west of Bramalea if there is a switch of train to bus at Bramalea....when the old 6:45 (now 6:50) evening WB train did that people hated and avoided it.....the length of time just to get to Brampton on that bus was a horrible disincentive to use.

 

[ShonTron]

If the weekend/evening train service only went to Bramalea, I'd like to see the direct Union Station bus service continue for points west, similar to how Route 16 is still a thing despite a parallel train service (and a bus to connect to it from Downtown Hamilton.)

TOareaFan's idea could make people travelling from Brampton transfer twice, which is especially ridiculous.

 

[TOareaFan]

If the weekend/evening train service only went to Bramalea, I'd like to see the direct Union Station bus service continue for points west, similar to how Route 16 is still a thing despite a parallel train service (and a bus to connect to it from Downtown Hamilton.)

TOareaFan's idea could make people travelling from Brampton transfer twice, which is especially ridiculous.

I don't think people on weekends would transfer twice though....people heading downtown for events and days in the city on the weekend would just drive to Bramalea rather than Brampton....that's why I would treat weekends differently....the massive underused parking on the weekend would have lots of room.

Like I said, it is not ideal....but in the absence of any movement on the provision of weekend service...it would show some movement.

Ideally, I would like to see hourly GO service from Mt. Pleasant on evenings and weekends too...with hourly complimentary bus service (eg...trains on the hour, buses on the half hour)....in fact that is a level of service I would like to see on all lines.....but it seems that is a long way off.

 

[ShonTron]

Part of the problem in your assumptions -- and GO Transit's problem with its assumptions -- is that people will just drive to the train station. That's the problem with Grimsby, that's the problem with Gormley, and that's the problem with some of those proposed GO/SmartTrack station plans. Those assumptions is why Metrolinx spends tens of millions of dollars building and expanding parking lots in the suburbs and exurbs. Minimizing the problems with transfers and slow bus connections by saying "no problem, just drive there" is flawed.

I'd rather have the status quo than what you're advocating.

 

[micheal_can]

The real solution is that the local transit authorities need to build higher order transit. Brampton backed out of the Hurontario LRT. I would bet that if the suburbs had LRT, or even busways a la Mississauga Transitway, there would be ore ridership. In the 'burbs, the bus is still seen as second class.