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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

Again, it is definitely true that in many suburbs there is a very car-centric mindset for the majority of residents. I'm pretty sure nobody disputes that. And yes, even once we have RER and even if transit service to RER stations is improved, of course there will always still be people parking there. But there's a difference between "people who want to take transit to the station can't" and "some people don't want to take transit to the station". Also, quite simply, regardless of how much some commuters want to park at the station, like I said at some stations (and this isn't just Aurora--my understanding is many stations, like the eastern LSE ones, have this issue too) there is simply not parking capacity. If someone wants to drive to the GO station and can't, there are 2 options: A) drive downtown, or B) take local transit/walk/bike to the GO station. If B is not even an option, that's a problem.

You have specifically made the point that not all suburban stations have poor transit service and that the stations with good transit service have a lot of people taking transit. All I'm saying is that I think that should be the case at all GO stations where feasible. Especially with RER it is simply not feasible to continue to fail to provide usable local transit connections to GO.
 
You have specifically made the point that not all suburban stations have poor transit service and that the stations with good transit service have a lot of people taking transit. All I'm saying is that I think that should be the case at all GO stations where feasible. Especially with RER it is simply not feasible to continue to fail to provide usable local transit connections to GO.

Actually I made the opposite point.....I consider the public transit option to my station (the one I use as an example) to be "suburban excellent"....yet I freely acknowledge that I am in the minority of people who arrive at the station via public transit and I gave a bit of anecdotal evidence of people I know who live +/- in the same 'hood as me and think I am nuts for taking the bus as opposed to driving to a station further away with better parking.
 
Actually I made the opposite point.....I consider the public transit option to my station (the one I use as an example) to be "suburban excellent"....yet I freely acknowledge that I am in the minority of people who arrive at the station via public transit and I gave a bit of anecdotal evidence of people I know who live +/- in the same 'hood as me and think I am nuts for taking the bus as opposed to driving to a station further away with better parking.

Fair enough--misunderstood that portion of what you were saying. I have travelled to a lot of GO stations, though, visiting friends around the GTHA while I lived downtown, and I found that the level of local transit ridership at, say, Oakville, Port Credit, Brampton, Unionville, and Langstaff was quite good. Of course I will fully admit that visiting those stations a couple of times each over a year is not the same as commuting to/from them daily, but using the local transit at those stations and taking a look around at other people waiting for various buses, I thought utilisation was quite good. Of course, at Aurora there are maybe 20-30 people at most taking the train meet local buses and virtually nobody taking local transit to connect to midday GO buses, so just about anybody taking a local bus is impressive to me, but I thought it looked good.

I'm actually trying to find that recent GO/ML study document showing parking vs transit/etc usage percentages per station but am having difficulty locating it--much better than anecdotal observations.
 
Fair enough--misunderstood that portion of what you were saying. I have travelled to a lot of GO stations, though, visiting friends around the GTHA while I lived downtown, and I found that the level of local transit ridership at, say, Oakville, Port Credit, Brampton, Unionville, and Langstaff was quite good. Of course I will fully admit that visiting those stations a couple of times each over a year is not the same as commuting to/from them daily, but using the local transit at those stations and taking a look around at other people waiting for various buses, I thought utilisation was quite good. Of course, at Aurora there are maybe 20-30 people at most taking the train meet local buses and virtually nobody taking local transit to connect to midday GO buses, so just about anybody taking a local bus is impressive to me, but I thought it looked good.

I'm actually trying to find that recent GO/ML study document showing parking vs transit/etc usage percentages per station but am having difficulty locating it--much better than anecdotal observations.
I think finding a study would be good...my station is the DT Brampton station....and I can tell you that of the few hundred people that get off rush hour trains with me....if 20 or 30 are headed for the bus depot that would be a very busy day....and that is a bus terminal with many and (by suburban standards) frequent buses.

EDIT: and there is the problem with observations....one of the bus routes served is not in the terminal....the main street buses are accessed from the far east end of the platform and down a flight of stairs....so my observation is missing those passengers....and only includes the Queen Street buses, GO buses and the other 3 or 4 local routes in the terminal.
 
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I would be careful with the words "suburban commuter" when you can/do really only speak to the York region/Aurora situation. I only use GO for ~ 30-40% of my commutes now....but it has been several years (lost count now) since I drove to my station...some suburban locations seem to have figured out that providing service to GO stations is a good way to drive ridership apparently.

There can be good transit to GO stations, but if those routes don't serve your neighbourhood or if you have to take two buses, then it's not a convenient alternative to the car.
 
There can be good transit to GO stations, but if those routes don't serve your neighbourhood or if you have to take two buses, then it's not a convenient alternative to the car.

If every neighbourhood in every suburban citiy/town is looking for a bus that is a direct, single ride/no transfer, connection to GO stations...tell me now and I will move out of province....cause that will bankrupt this place.

It is simply not acheivevable at all. I take a 7 bus to 1/5o1 bus to the GO.....the trick is to make those grid based connections relatively quick and efficient...can't speak for all the transit agencies but BT has done a decent job with that.....but if my low-mid density neighbourhood (and every other one in Brampton) insisted/got a bus that went direct to a GO station that would be a bus ride to financial ruin.
 
If every neighbourhood in every suburban citiy/town is looking for a bus that is a direct, single ride/no transfer, connection to GO stations...tell me now and I will move out of province....cause that will bankrupt this place.

It is simply not acheivevable at all. I take a 7 bus to 1/5o1 bus to the GO.....the trick is to make those grid based connections relatively quick and efficient...can't speak for all the transit agencies but BT has done a decent job with that.....but if my low-mid density neighbourhood (and every other one in Brampton) insisted/got a bus that went direct to a GO station that would be a bus ride to financial ruin.

I was not insisting that such service ought to be implemented everywhere. I was saying that for people who don't have a convenient one-seat bus ride from their house to the station, they are unlikely to switch to transit whether you consider it "good transit" or not. Not unless those buses are running with TTC frequency, like every 5 minutes, not 20.
 
I was not insisting that such service ought to be implemented everywhere. I was saying that for people who don't have a convenient one-seat bus ride from their house to the station, they are unlikely to switch to transit whether you consider it "good transit" or not.
but you are saying the same thing....no point encouraging people to use transit if we can't provide everyone a single seat ride to the station....so if that is the case, we better get started building more parking at all the GO stations. The inverse of that is that if you want people to use transit to the station then everyone has to be provided with a single seat ride to the station.

Sadly, I think ML/GO agrees with you if their recent land purchase in Brampton is any indication.
 
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Metrolinx is constantly releasing various studies/documents saying they want people to take local transit to GO stations, and that parking is not sustainable at the current rate of increase in the long term, and that passengers need to partially shift to using local transit. If Metrolinx is saying it, they need to be prepared to do something about it--the Government of Ontario, perhaps, can specifically fund GO-connecting services for various local transit operators such as YRT. Yes, at the end of the day, the operation of that local service is done by YRT, but Metrolinx is raising the issue of wanting people to take local transit, so they need to put their money where their mouths are.

Metrolinx actually has been doing some spending to improve station accessibility. For example, they funded the entire startup cost of the Hamilton Bike Share system on the basis that it would improve access to Hamilton Centre and West Harbour GO stations, as well as the HSR B-Line express bus (precursor to Hamilton LRT). In addition, I assume Metrolinx is compensating local transit agencies for their heavily-discounted Ride to GO fares.

The challenge with providing local transit to and from suburban GO stations is that so much of the catchment area is low-density, and the distances to the GO station are relatively modest. If it only takes 15 minutes to drive to the GO station, a bus trip which starts with a 10-minute walk will not be very competitive. Conversely, providing dense bus coverage throughout the suburbs would be extremely expensive, since there would never be enough ridership to recoup costs.

Another more practical option for suburban station access is cycling infrastructure. I can't find statistics on GO access distances, but my guess is that most trips are less than 5 km, which is a 15-20 min bike ride. For such trips, cycling can be just as fast as driving, with bicycle shortcuts and traffic avoidance offsetting the higher cruising speed of cars. And it costs extremely little, since you don't need any cycling infrastructure on quiet suburban streets, you just need a bike path along the arterial road for the last little bit leading up to the station. I'd like to see Metrolinx set up a grant system to support cycling infrastructure that improves GO station access (as long as it is built to a high enough standard anyone can use it, regardless of age or "cycling experience").
 
Another more practical option for suburban station access is cycling infrastructure. I can't find statistics on GO access distances, but my guess is that most trips are less than 5 km, which is a 15-20 min bike ride. For such trips, cycling can be just as fast as driving, with bicycle shortcuts and traffic avoidance offsetting the higher cruising speed of cars. And it costs extremely little, since you don't need any cycling infrastructure on quiet suburban streets, you just need a bike path along the arterial road for the last little bit leading up to the station. I'd like to see Metrolinx set up a grant system to support cycling infrastructure that improves GO station access (as long as it is built to a high enough standard anyone can use it, regardless of age or "cycling experience").

The issue with cycling is that the vast majority of the population who would even consider cycling in the first place will not do so during the winter, nor for that matter colder fall/spring months, nor in the rain or on very hot days etc. So the people who cycle, except for 5% or maybe even less who will do it no matter the conditions, will use it about 6-8 months of the year, maybe about 75% of the days of those months? So we need a working system for the times they don't bike, and at that point they're likely to just use local transit year round.

Also, for a lot of the suburban stations, it's not necessarily a matter of distance or of having nice bike lanes, but of uphills. Like I said, my station is a constant, not-insignificant (to me) uphill the entire ~10-minute ride, which is something that I'm not interested in attempting--I don't do well with hills, and I'd rather not ride the train smelling awful the whole way then have to get a gym membership downtown and take a change of clothes every time due to a harsh uphill ride (again, I'm not a professional/experienced cyclist, I'm a recreational cyclist--like most GO commuters I'd imagine).
 
The issue with cycling is that the vast majority of the population who would even consider cycling in the first place will not do so during the winter, nor for that matter colder fall/spring months, nor in the rain or on very hot days etc. So the people who cycle, except for 5% or maybe even less who will do it no matter the conditions, will use it about 6-8 months of the year, maybe about 75% of the days of those months? So we need a working system for the times they don't bike, and at that point they're likely to just use local transit year round.

Obviously fewer people cycle in the cold, or in the rain. But the same is true with walking, yet we still provide sidewalks to and from stations. Because while there are some people who will stop walking/cycling in various conditions, there are others who would continue doing so, if the infrastructure made it practical.

Of course no one is going to cycle in winter if it's on-street. But I've been commuting riding year round by bike in Waterloo, and it's really not a big deal when it's on a separate bike path. In fact, I find cycling in winter much nicer than cycling in spring because it almost never rains (you don't get wet from snow), and the dry air means you can ride faster without breaking a sweat. When you dress warmly (coat, scarf, hat, etc), the cold isn't really an issue until it drops below about -15, at least for short commutes like mine. Which means that there's only one month per year when it's frequently uncomfortable to cycle. Here are some snapshots of my commutes this winter.
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In fact, here is a picture from the way home from Kitchener GO station on the day of a snow storm.
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That morning on the way to the station I encountered a portion of bike path that hadn't been cleared, requiring me to walk part of the way, and as a result I almost missed the train. But it could have been worse. At each station there were lots of people who did actually miss the train, likely because it took them longer than expected to drive.

If people do chose to cycle only part of the year, would it be worth owning a car only for the remainder? If not, then cycling to the station part of the year could cause them to put up with relatively uncompetitive transit in winter, which has the same end result in terms of station parking.

As for rain, that doesn't seem to dissuade people from cycling in other countries. When I was in the Netherlands for two weeks, it rained almost every single day, but there were still plenty of people cycling. It's worth noting that with a high enough quality of infrastructure, you can cycle with an umbrella, thereby making riding in the rain relatively pleasant. In the Netherlands, the bicycle is the primary means of access to train stations. Here are some of the bicycle parking lots and garages I found around train stations there:

Houten station (one of two stations serving a town of 50,000 people) - 3,000 indoor bicycle parking spaces
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Overvecht station (a minor inner-suburban station in Utrecht)
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Den Haag Centraal (bicycle parking garage on one side, bicycle parking lot on the other)
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Rotterdam Centraal: 5,190 indoor bicycle parking spaces (sign indicates that 933 are free at the moment)
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Utrecht Centraal: 4,000 space public parking garage as well as many outdoor parking lots and privately-operated garages. A 30,000-space garage is also under construction.
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The central stations all have very good transit access, so the fact that most people are still cycling inherently means that they consider cycling to be a better option. In the effort to reduce car parking demand at GO stations, we shouldn't dismiss a transportation mode that could potentially become people's preferred alternate means of access.

Also, for a lot of the suburban stations, it's not necessarily a matter of distance or of having nice bike lanes, but of uphills. Like I said, my station is a constant, not-insignificant (to me) uphill the entire ~10-minute ride, which is something that I'm not interested in attempting--I don't do well with hills, and I'd rather not ride the train smelling awful the whole way then have to get a gym membership downtown and take a change of clothes every time due to a harsh uphill ride (again, I'm not a professional/experienced cyclist, I'm a recreational cyclist--like most GO commuters I'd imagine).

An uphill ride to the station is indeed annoying, though it becomes less of an issue if infrastructure is separate from cars. When riding on-road (including in bike lanes), there is an inherent pressure to ride briskly. But when away from cars, people are more able to ride at whatever pace is relaxed. Your sweaty 10 minute ride is probably also a leisurely 15 minute ride.

An uphill ride home from the station is presumably less of an issue, and I find it hard to believe that every GO station is at the top of a hill.
 
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For uphills, an 800 dollar "ordinary bike with a battery pack" does huge wonders for that minor 10 minute uphill ride without needing more than one or two overnight recharges a week. Make sure it's very well built and a good lock from theft, however.

Not talking about those e-scooters.
But those ordinary bikes with stealthy electric assists, often with a cupholder-sized batteries bolted to the inside frame. You know, those kinds of bikes that nobody would stop you if you took those onto offstreet bike paths, because they look so ordinary.

You can still pedal, sometimes it just reduces pedal effort by 10x, making uphill feel like flat ground. Or it goes 100 percent so just coast uphill. Often adjustable via handlebar. You get more exercise than driving, but without sweating.
 
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Obviously fewer people cycle in the cold, or in the rain. But the same is true with walking, yet we still provide sidewalks to and from stations. Because while there are some people who will stop walking/cycling in various conditions, there are others who would continue doing so, if the infrastructure made it practical.
More people would do this with some more simple bike incentivization.

More multiuse and offstreet bike paths to GO stations where there is land available to channel the bikes from a larger commuter catchment. Small steps are now being done but most are onstreet cycle lanes which is unappealing in winter. Widening some suburban sidewalks into multiuse trails would be good, and allow easy quick plowing by one pass of pickup truck. Those 2 meter sidewalks surrounded by lots of grass on both sides, some of them even go close to some of the suburban GO stations too, and would increase non-car commuter catchment. Even just 1,000 new bike commuters GTHA-wide would be possible with simple fixes.
 

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