GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Totally agree. Incremental improvements every year starting this year making people's lives better or easier is easier for me to be excited about that something that may happen 15 years later.

It's also important to keep in mind that it's only a small portion of the overall ridership - it needs to be done, but it is not the only piece of the puzzle. Probably a lowest hanging fruit.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

I don't get the increase in CN/VIA numbers. Has there been an actual service increase by VIA Rail? Are there more local CN switching trains using the line? It would be interesting to know the source for that number or how it relates to the current VIA timetable.

That origins of the 2015 numbers in that table is at least 5 years old, and perhaps even older, anticipating VIA's proposed service increases - since cancelled with further budget cuts from the Conservatives ... along with VIA service cuts. If you go into the EA, the basis is shown in detail, including the proposed VIA schedule. Recall that this was before GO announced any plans to extend GO service from Georgetown to Kitchener.

EDIT: sorry...my bad...went back and looked....hadn't noticed that the fuzzy chart was broken down into Peak and off peak....will re-look at it.

Ah, I see. Fortunately there's a lot more than that!! Reality seems to exceed the "up to 29" number they've been touting for years ... even if they may arrive in fiscal 2015 rather than calendar 2015. Recall that Metrolinx's fiscal 2015-2016 is from April 1 2015 to March 31 2016. So we should see the promised 2015-2016 service within the year. I'd hope some in September.

 

[TOareaFan]

That origins of the 2015 numbers in that table is at least 5 years old, and perhaps even older, anticipating VIA's proposed service increases - since cancelled with further budget cuts from the Conservatives ... along with VIA service cuts. If you go into the EA, the basis is shown in detail, including the proposed VIA schedule. Recall that this was before GO announced any plans to extend GO service from Georgetown to Kitchener.

Ah, I see. Fortunately there's a lot more than that!! Reality seems to exceed the "up to 29" number they've been touting for years ... even if they may arrive in fiscal 2015 rather than calendar 2015. Recall that Metrolinx's fiscal 2015-2016 is from April 1 2015 to March 31 2016. So we should see the promised 2015-2016 service within the year. I'd hope some in September.

Certainly from a KW line point of view (once you take in both parts of that table ) there is a lot of positive in there. Minor nitpicks is that it is slightly later than promised....and a local Brampton traffic/transit issue may arise with the disparity of service level between the 3 stations as people gravitate to the Bramalea station.

All in all that is a lot of trains to spread out during the "off peak" part of the day.

 

[gweed123]

Totally agree. Incremental improvements every year starting this year making people's lives better or easier is easier for me to be excited about that something that may happen 15 years later.

Especially on lines where double tracking and grade-separations will allow for greater frequency, even prior to electrification. I would imagine that these improvements would happen incrementally, leading to many minor service increases in the years leading up to electrification.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Wasn't the promise 2015? If it's in September as rumoured, it would be "on time"

The 18 trips would be enough to provide hourly off peak, I believe.

 

[TOareaFan]

Wasn't the promise 2015? If it's in September as rumoured, it would be "on time"

yes if it was september it would be on time.....it has now been redefined as 2015/2016....as Nfitz says they deal in fiscal years so they are being a bit more transparent now and showing the promise in line with "their" years......but back in 2010 when they said 2015 you can't blame people for thinking it was calender 2015...that is how most people think.

One of the missed PR elements that ML and the government always seem to miss (IMO) is how many of the stations on the KW line are in Toronto proper (rather than GTA)....so many Torontonians view GO as useless for 416ers and today's announcement may be used in a "pandering to the 905" spin.....that line has 4 of its stations in the 416 and could offer some Toronto people a real relief on getting into the city.

Also, with all those GO trains getting so close to Pearson airport at the Malton station....hopefully some of the buses that this might free up can be used to link Malton to the terminals as one fair trip extenders.

 

[nfitz]

Wasn't the promise 2015? If it's in September as rumoured, it would be "on time"

Was it a promise? Doesn't the up to 29 trains comes out of a table during the EA process for the Weston community, to give them an idea what the approximate post-completion usage was going to be. Seems more of a planning concept than a government promise.

If it's really going to be 34, and not up to 29, then some might see that as a broken promise!

Though even if this doesn't materialize until 2016 ... it's done fairly well compared over the last 5 years, compared to other big project promises at the beginning of construction. Recall 2014 for Sheppard East LRT, 2015 for the Spadina Extension, and 2020 for the Eglinton line from Mount Dennis to Kennedy (wait, some of you still believe in that one, don't you ... LOL).

 

[ehlow]

Especially on lines where double tracking and grade-separations will allow for greater frequency, even prior to electrification. I would imagine that these improvements would happen incrementally, leading to many minor service increases in the years leading up to electrification.

Yeah, the Georgetown project is finishing soon (or finished already?), and in that table it shows a massive increase in off-peak service as a result in 2015-16. I don't think there's any off-peak service now.

I'm guessing the timing of the Barrie & Stouffville service increases in a few years are timed to take advantage of the double tracking work that is starting soon.

Lakeshore already has all way two way 30 min service, without electrification, which resulted in a big ridership boost. If more lines do that instead of being peak-only, to me that's already a very significant improvement.

You can do trips not possible before, like stay downtown after work for dinner, then catch a train back late at night. Or, catch the train to downtown in the afternoon, walk directly to the ACC to watch the Raptors game, then head back late at night after.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

I absolutely love how advertising about RER now features GO Transit EMUs, signalling what is yet to come. Very European. Very futuristic.
View attachment 44279

Looks like we might be seeing Stadler KISS ("Komfortabler, Innovativer, Spurtstarker S-Bahn-Zug") in the not too distant future

 

[TOareaFan]

Was it a promise? Doesn't the up to 29 trains comes out of a table during the EA process for the Weston community, to give them an idea what the approximate post-completion usage was going to be. Seems more of a planning concept than a government promise.

In my mind it may have started in the EA but evolved to a promise.....it certainly became a promise when they included it in the FAQ section of the GTS page and when they explained the cancellation of the former mid day trains they always framed it as short term pain to get to the promised expanded service. In going to get the table today to post I noticed that some time in the last few months the words "on day one" have been taken out (those words used to be there to describe what service levels would be there on day one after GTS and included the up to 29 and the UPe trains) which also tells me that they realized that what was gonna be there on day 1 (the UPe trains) did not match the previous numbers...so, in their mind, yep it seems it was a promise.[/quote]

If it's really going to be 34, and not up to 29, then some might see that as a broken promise!

I know you jest but there may be some flack over this. While the riders on the KW line saw this promise as a hope for more trains and felt the bigger number the better...the other use of this number was to satisfy some of the more vocal members of the local (primarily Weston area) opposition to GTS who were spreading the word that once GTS was finished there would be 500 trains a day....so, to this audience, the lower the number the better and some may make a meal out of the fact it is gonna come in higher.

 

[gweed123]

Yeah, the Georgetown project is finishing soon (or finished already?), and in that table it shows a massive increase in off-peak service as a result in 2015-16. I don't think there's any off-peak service now.

I'm guessing the timing of the Barrie & Stouffville service increases in a few years are timed to take advantage of the double tracking work that is starting soon.

Lakeshore already has all way two way 30 min service, without electrification, which resulted in a big ridership boost. If more lines do that instead of being peak-only, to me that's already a very significant improvement.

You can do trips not possible before, like stay downtown after work for dinner, then catch a train back late at night. Or, catch the train to downtown in the afternoon, walk directly to the ACC to watch the Raptors game, then head back late at night after.

Yup exactly. The GTS project is a good example of how non-electrification infrastructure investment can still yield pretty good service increases. Double tracking work on both the Barrie and Stouffville lines will allow for at least hourly service, which would likely result in a huge ridership boost.

Having all of these improvements on other lines may force Metrolinx to speed up track work on the Milton line, as Mississauga is going to be one of the areas to benefit the least from this GO RER scheme.

 

[ehlow]

Yup exactly. The GTS project is a good example of how non-electrification infrastructure investment can still yield pretty good service increases. Double tracking work on both the Barrie and Stouffville lines will allow for at least hourly service, which would likely result in a huge ridership boost.

Having all of these improvements on other lines may force Metrolinx to speed up track work on the Milton line, as Mississauga is going to be one of the areas to benefit the least from this GO RER scheme.

Although electrification seems great, I've also wondered: why not just use DMUs like the UPX does (or Ottawa's O train)? Especially if it's cheaper and can be done sooner? I mean, UPX is already running all day both ways at 15 min frequencies. What if you did the same thing with larger DMUs for GO on corridors with two tracks like Lakeshore? Since it's multiple unit it should still accel/decel faster than current trains I'd assume.

I'm assuming it's because they're afraid of the complaints about pollution.

 

[Tuscani01]

Yup exactly. The GTS project is a good example of how non-electrification infrastructure investment can still yield pretty good service increases. Double tracking work on both the Barrie and Stouffville lines will allow for at least hourly service, which would likely result in a huge ridership boost.

Having all of these improvements on other lines may force Metrolinx to speed up track work on the Milton line, as Mississauga is going to be one of the areas to benefit the least from this GO RER scheme.

Or the Province can use this to justify paying for the Hurontario LRT. Hey Mississauga, we cant improve GO service on the Milton line for you right now, but we can make it eaiser for you to get to Lakeshore West, or the Kitchener Line, to use the frequent service there instead.

 

[royalrivers]

Kitchener to Bramalea then express to Union train coming in 2016?

Express service:
•In addition to the services outlined above, communities between Oakville and Hamilton on the Lakeshore West line, between Bramalea and Kitchener on the Kitchener line, and between Pickering and Oshawa on the Lakeshore East line would benefit from express services to-and-from Union Station.

So basically they will extend the exisiting Bramalea express train to start in Kitchener at the end of 2016 as speculated on here for awhile. CTC install is to be finished late this summer.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Oliver Moore @moore_oliver · 1 hr 1 hour ago
GO expansion plan to cost $13.5B. That's a lot for suburban rail. Doesn't leave much for other projects, like DRL. #transit #topoli #onpoli

Oliver Moore @moore_oliver · 1 hr 1 hour ago
There's ~$16.5B in prov money for #transit investment in GTHA. Take RER out of that and all other projects fighting over $3B #topoli #onpoli

Oliver Moore @moore_oliver · 1 hr 1 hour ago
Asked Del Duca where this leaves DRL, rest of Next Wave. Said they'll be able to say more "over the next number of days" #topoli #onpoli

Didn't the Liberals commit totally the DRL, YN and an assortment of smaller projects? They'd better get them done.