GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[aquateam]

I'm all for letting the customer pursue the best deal. If Hamilton isn't the best deal, and the customers go elsewhere, the economic impacts (on the airport funding) will follow. The Buffalo idea would create jobs too, just not at Hamilton airport. That's market forces for you.

I don't drive the extra distance to Buffalo (going right by Hamilton on the way) on principle. Buffalo has much better flight connections if you are travelling to the US. It's a very well run airport. There is greater choice, ie more airlines. I do consider Hamilton when I make my choices, but so far it hasn't been the more attractive option. I talk to enough people who do the same thing that I don't think I'm alone in this.

For domestic flights, I don't consider Buffalo. I haven't compared the tax specifically between Pearson and Hamilton. My exact home location seems to lead to my ending up going through Pearson, but I'm never happy about that.

- Paul

Canadian airports are more expensive to fly out of because the cost of expansion and operations are tacked onto the price of the ticket (i.e. airports pay for themselves, and in fact pay rent to the federal government) whereas in the US their airports are funded partially through taxpayers. Effectively, US taxpayers are subsidizing their airports, which is what drives the price differential, not some kind of free market efficiency on their part.

Instead of having the government of Ontario provide additional incentives to cross-border flying by providing subsidized public transit to Buffalo airport, they could just reduce taxes or fees at Hamilton and Pearson airports.

 

[TOareaFan]

Canadian airports are more expensive to fly out of because the cost of expansion and operations are tacked onto the price of the ticket (i.e. airports pay for themselves, and in fact pay rent to the federal government) whereas in the US their airports are funded partially through taxpayers. Effectively, US taxpayers are subsidizing their airports, which is what drives the price differential, not some kind of free market efficiency on their part.

Instead of having the government of Ontario provide additional incentives to cross-border flying by providing subsidized public transit to Buffalo airport, they could just reduce taxes or fees at Hamilton and Pearson airports.

You are generally correct in that the cost differential is largely due to how we fund airports.....but I am not sure there is a big provincial component in that. I believe the feds would have to make the sort of decision you are looking at and, in that case, it would be a lot more than just YHM, YYZ and YTZ that would be affected.

 

[Jonny5]

sure...if a private operator wanted to pay a fee to utilize our a platform at a GO station and was willing to pay for the privilege I am sure something can be worked out.

It's entirely possible that GO could generate sufficient revenue to pay a private operator to provide the service too.

 

[aquateam]

You are generally correct in that the cost differential is largely due to how we fund airports.....but I am not sure there is a big provincial component in that. I believe the feds would have to make the sort of decision you are looking at and, in that case, it would be a lot more than just YHM, YYZ and YTZ that would be affected.

The provincial component is mostly fuel taxes, I believe. I mentioned the provincial government funding in the context of funding airports instead of providing transit to foreign airports, but I don't think that's a good solution. Really, I think that the problem is more on the US side, since airports there aren't sustainable without the taxpayer subsidies. Canada used to fund its airports like that, I think the Mirabel fiasco and the 1990s budget balancing is what made them change to a user-payer model (which is what all services should aspire to).

 

[BurlOak]

The provincial component is mostly fuel taxes, I believe. I mentioned the provincial government funding in the context of funding airports instead of providing transit to foreign airports, but I don't think that's a good solution. Really, I think that the problem is more on the US side, since airports there aren't sustainable without the taxpayer subsidies. Canada used to fund its airports like that, I think the Mirabel fiasco and the 1990s budget balancing is what made them change to a user-payer model (which is what all services should aspire to).

Aren't the Provincial government in the process of increase air fuel taxes by 150%?

 

[TOareaFan]

Aren't the Provincial government in the process of increase air fuel taxes by 150%?

The June 2014 budget increased the fuel tax from 2.7 cents a litre to 6.7 cents per litre phased in over 4 years (presumably 1 cent a year but I am not sure on that).

 

[gweed123]

The location of the Niagara Falls VIA station had me thinking. It's probably one of the few locales in North America that would actually be able to support a monorail. The tourist dollars and novelty factor are already there. I wouldn't even be mentioning it if the right-of-way between the VIA rail station and Marineland (not that Marineland is an all-that-important destination in itself, but it would be a very important park-and-ride lot) weren't already largely still in existence, and the ROW didn't pass through multiple hotels and casinos on the way there.

Anyways...

Short-term, expansion of regular hourly/bi-hourly GO service to St Catharines definitely makes sense regardless of electrification status. Once regular electrified rail service on the Empire Corridor to Buffalo and it's airport are actually under construction, sinking money into tunnelling the rail line under the Seaway would become a more realistic expectation.

I have to say, that Monorail is a pretty interesting idea. You're right that Niagara Falls is a pretty big tourist spot already, and having a direct connection between a rail station at "the strip" would be pretty useful. It could even potentially spawn some hotel redevelopment north and south of the strip, since patrons there would have easy access to the main part.

Also, regarding the posts here about the Welland Canal, my biggest point to that would be to ensure that whatever solution is built is suitable for HSR as well, since a Toronto-Niagara Falls-Buffalo-Syracuse-NYC HSR route may be down the line.

 

[crs1026]

I would like to see a solution that benefits the tourism and recreational industry across the Niagara region, and not just helps people see the Falls. A transportation hub in St Catherines could feed routes radiating to Niagara on the Lake and to the bigger wine producers, as well as the Niagara Gorge and the Falls itself. Day tripping from Toronto is pretty much forced into automobiles at the moment. Tourists would likely accept an across-the platform transfer at St Catherines, especially if the bus route took them directly to the hotel strip and/or the Casino.

- Paul

 

[gweed123]

I would like to see a solution that benefits the tourism and recreational industry across the Niagara region, and not just helps people see the Falls. A transportation hub in St Catherines could feed routes radiating to Niagara on the Lake and to the bigger wine producers, as well as the Niagara Gorge and the Falls itself. Day tripping from Toronto is pretty much forced into automobiles at the moment. Tourists would likely accept an across-the platform transfer at St Catherines, especially if the bus route took them directly to the hotel strip and/or the Casino.

- Paul

I don't know if that would really work, especially if the bus is pretty much just a shuttle between St. Catharines and the hotels in Niagara Falls. Part of the appeal of the monorail is that it can be used for both the end part of a long-haul GO trip, or as a people mover around the strip area. It's not just a service to get people there, it's a service to efficiently move people once they're already there.

If you wanted, you could provide shuttle service from the Niagara Falls GO station to destinations not covered by the monorail (like the gorge, as you mentioned).

 

[innsertnamehere]

So it looks like GO got Bombardier crews operating the Milton line just in time, CP crews have now all gone on strike.

 

[royalrivers]

CTC Install (Silver (Georgetown) to London)

Via Rail gave us an update on the CTC install along Guelph Junction (Silver (Georgetown) to London) stating "Much work already done on this. Expect to complete & activate by mid-2015."

 

[drum118]

The Record<http://www.therecord.com/news-story...vince-for-go-trains-cambridge-residents-urge/>


11 hours ago | Vote0 0
Keep pushing the province for GO trains, Cambridge residents urge


Waterloo Region RecordBy Chris Herhalt
CAMBRIDGE — Community and business leaders urged Cambridge city officials to keep pressing the provincial government for GO trains at a presentation Friday, saying the city has been left out of multibillion dollar transit plans long enough.
"Most of the days of the week, it's a parking lot out there on the 401," Cambridge Mayor Doug Craig said.
The latest study commissioned by the city suggests using diesel multiple-unit trains, similar to those purchased for the Union-Pearson express train, to save money versus the lumbering double-decker units used on most GO train lines.
They estimate the startup cost of four train trips each way between Cambridge and Toronto, using the smaller trains, would be no more than $73 million.
Building infrastructure necessary for two round-trip, double-decker trains to Cambridge, the same service Kitchener has today, would cost as much as $110 million.
Consultant Richard Puccini said using the smaller, nimbler trains "is not a slam dunk" due to operational issues, but the travel time from downtown Galt to downtown Toronto could be as low as 90 minutes.
"Kitchener's (GO train travel time) is two hours and four minutes," Puccini said. "That's not a commute."
But with a map that showed GO Transit's seven train lines stretching out from the Toronto core to far-out suburbs like Barrie, Kitchener and Stouffville, Puccini told the audience that Cambridge still needs to be noticed by transportation bureaucrats in Toronto.
"As you take a look at that map, what's missing," Puccini asked.
"Cambridge," murmured one person in response.
Provincial transit agency Metrolinx's latest "Regional Express Rail" strategy aims to boost service on all GO train lines, in either direction, all throughout the day.
"That's the strategy, that's the plan, but Cambridge isn't in that plan," Puccini said.
Cambridge officials would like Metrolinx to include Waterloo Region in its planning mandate and immediately begin an environmental assessment of potential station sites in Galt and east toward Milton for the new service.
Jerry Ford set up a fibre-optic, cable-equipped co-working space for tech contractors and entrepreneurs in Hespeler. He said several prospective tenants have opted to locate elsewhere, saying the proximity to transit was the deciding factor.
"That's going to be a hassle," Ford said the developers told him about working in Hespeler. "They preferred being in downtown Kitchener."
Conestoga College president John Tibetts said GO rail service would likely make his campus more attractive to students from the Toronto area.
"There's no doubt something like this would help us attract students from the west end of Toronto."
Craig said the city is hosting presentations and commissioning studies in order to build the best possible case for provincial transit investment.
"We're not waiting around as a community for Metrolinx to discover us at some point in the future."
He said the fact that a scan of license plates in the Milton GO station parking lot found 20 per cent of them were registered in Cambridge proves the city can't wait any longer.
Craig said he expects to have a face-to-face meeting with Ontario Transportation Minister Steven Del Duca sometime in April.


cherhalt@therecord.com , Twitter: @HerhaltRecord

 

[reaperexpress]

While I was at Bramalea at 08:28 on Thursday, a six-car GO train pulled into the platform westbound. I can guess that it's the southbound Barrie Line run that arrived at Union at 7:47, but is this a daily occurrence?

I'm guessing that once the additional GTS tracks are operational and the speed restrictions are lifted, this could become an in-service express train run departing Union at 8:00 and arriving Bramalea at 8:25. That would work nicely for the schedule, since the nearest bus service takes 50 minutes from Union to Bramalea. Passengers would see reduced travel times even to destinations beyond Bramalea which would require a new transfer. Plus the counter-peak train run could serve as the jumping-off point for new Route 30 and 39 express bus runs to Kitchener and Guelph respectively.

Consultant Richard Puccini said using the smaller, nimbler trains "is not a slam dunk" due to operational issues, but the travel time from downtown Galt to downtown Toronto could be as low as 90 minutes.
"Kitchener's (GO train travel time) is two hours and four minutes," Puccini said. "That's not a commute."

Jeez, talk about unfair reporting. The 124 minute travel time is based on all-stops service on a railway plagued with construction-related slowdowns. Local trains did the trip in 119 minutes before construction started, and the project itself should cut around 20 minutes off that (speed increases plus limited-stop pattern). And then there's the fact that we just bought the Kitchener-Georgetown segment and will be heavily investing in that too, which would bring the travel time well below 90 minutes.

Besides, the Milton line currently takes 57 minutes. Based on a typical 10 minute transfer, this implies that the Cambridge-Milton shuttle could cover the 43 km in 23 minutes. That's an average speed of 112 km/h, which is way beyond what is reasonable to expect on a busy freight line with sharp curves.

 

[TOareaFan]

I don't spend a ton of time at Bramalea.....ocassionally I aim there in the morning to catch the 9:39 to Union....have never seen a 6 car train there though. I think all but the 9:39 are 10 car trains....the 9:39 train is (I think) a 12 car train with the two most westerly cars disabled for the run to Union (ie. you can sit in them but the doors won't open at any stations...including Union)

 

[reaperexpress]

I don't spend a ton of time at Bramalea.....ocassionally I aim there in the morning to catch the 9:39 to Union....have never seen a 6 car train there though. I think all but the 9:39 are 10 car trains....the 9:39 train is (I think) a 12 car train with the two most westerly cars disabled for the run to Union (ie. you can sit in them but the doors won't open at any stations...including Union)

Hmm, interesting. I wonder what the train I saw did between 8:30 and 9:39. I'm pretty sure it was 6 cars, and this is supported by the fact that it had a single F59 locomotive, a configuration I don't see with 10 or 12 packs anymore.

Perhaps the 8:19 6-car Barrie train joins it to form that 12-car set with two disabled cars. In which case there is the potential for a second counter-peak run departing Union at 8:30 and arriving Bramalea at 8:55.