GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Voltz]

Are there any plans to increase the speed by adding more tracks?

There is apparently a study going on about adding a third track and grade separations from Guildwood to Pickering.

The Transit Project Assessment Process (TPAP) study for the third track and grade
separations along the Lakeshore East Corridor between Guildwood and Durham
Junction has been tendered, and will be awarded by December 2013.

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...05/20131205_BoardMtg_GO_Transit_Report_EN.pdf

 

[innsertnamehere]

My understanding is that they want 3 tracks all the way to Whitby as well.

 

[robmausser]

Do you recall where this was? It's usually a bit slower going through the switches from the Kingston sub and the GO sub west of Pickering GO and they don't pick up as it's close to the station. Pickering to Ajax and Ajax to Whitby, I can match my highway speed to the train and it ends up being between 100 and 110km/h (yes, I do this for fun some times).

Going through the same stretches, without hitting any switches as it stays on the Kingston sub, the VIA is usually going closer to 140 km/h, so there would be a noticeable difference if a VIA passed you.

Someone can correct me (probably smallspy), but I don't think there's enough room on the GO sub right of way to increase the number of tracks.

The entire time from Union to Pickering we never went over 80km/h.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

Took the Express GO Train on the Lakeshore East Line for the first time today.

To be honest, while it was nice to not stop at stations, it was still kinda slow! There were cars passing us on the 401.

Why are the express trains still so slow? At one point a VIA train passed us and they were FLYING by us compared to our speed.

Whats stopping them from going any faster with the express trains?

There are no express trains through the section that runs along side the 401. Every revenue train that operates(to & from Oshawa) makes all stops on that section, the express portions for express trains are west of there. So because they make all stops on that section they won't be going that fast through there, hence why cars on the 401 can pass us. The only section where the trains can hit the zone speed of 85mph(137kph) is between Ajax & Whitby(if cars are passing us then then there's a problem and it has nothing to do with the train ). If everyone's on schedule most trains will get up to that speed but any kind of delay to the train ahead during rush hour will give us more restrictive signals to operate on and will definitely result in delays.

The entire time from Union to Pickering we never went over 80km/h.

Something must of happened then, that is far from the norm on that stretch.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

My understanding is that they want 3 tracks all the way to Whitby as well.

That's going to be tough to accomplish just east of Durham Jct. There's only room for the two tracks underneath CN's York sub as the tracks are right up against the abutments of their bridge and squzzed in against the 401 on the north side. There would be some serious downtime for the CN line in order to move back that abutment and put in a longer span to accommodate a three track. Basically no chance CN would ever agree to that, the most cost effective solution for GO.

GO would probably have to build a new bridge to the south over the 401 for them. Drop in the bucket in terms of the total costs they plan on spending, but talk about inefficiency.

 

[innsertnamehere]

No, from my experience 80km/h on the express train is completely normal. It always confused me as well because stouffville trains would get up to 140km/h all the time on the main track.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

Well that definitely sucks. I've had to operate a few different express trains on the line in the past year and the majority of the time we've had permissive signals enabling us to move as fast as possible for our run. Are there certain trains(arrival/departure times) in particular that you've found that happening more frequently on?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

vegeta, how much does it cost to lay down track?

 

[reaperexpress]

My understanding is that they want 3 tracks all the way to Whitby as well.

I highly doubt it, at least in the near future. We'll need 4 tracks on the Kingston sub long before we need 3 on the GO sub.

There is no shortage of capacity on the GO sub because as Vegeta mentioned, all trains make all stops. The capacity is therefore limited by the minimum headway (signals). And I don't see much point in introducing express service east of Pickering in the future either.

On the Kingston sub, particularly west of Scarborough, it's a different story. The number and variety of different service patterns limits capacity per track. Also keep in mind that many Lakeshore East local trains turn back at Pickering during peak periods.

 

[ShonTron]

Indeed. I'd like to see more VIA trains to Kingston, Montreal and Ottawa too. They need to use the Kingston Sub as well.

 

[Northern Light]

Indeed. I'd like to see more VIA trains to Kingston, Montreal and Ottawa too. They need to use the Kingston Sub as well.

I believe the Stouffville EA for 2-way service will end up initiating a 4th track from Stouffville Junction to Toronto-Union, with the basic premise of giving Stouffville its own track pair; though we will have to wait and see.

My preferred configuration would be 5 tracks in that space; so that one could be exclusive to and owned or managed by VIA; with the other 4 being GO; then VIA getting the 3rd track from Stouffville Junction to Durham Junction.

Thereafter, with a bit of spend, VIA could string together a third track all its own all the way to Brockville; and maybe even a 4th 'passing track' in 2-3 locations.

 

[reaperexpress]

I believe the Stouffville EA for 2-way service will end up initiating a 4th track from Stouffville Junction to Toronto-Union, with the basic premise of giving Stouffville its own track pair; though we will have to wait and see.

My preferred configuration would be 5 tracks in that space; so that one could be exclusive to and owned or managed by VIA; with the other 4 being GO; then VIA getting the 3rd track from Stouffville Junction to Durham Junction.

I also heard that the plan is for 4 tracks west of Scarborough, but not that the Stouffville line gets its own pair. That would completely mess up the operation of the Lakeshore East and VIA services.

As far as I can tell, the current 3 tracks operate with the two outer tracks serving local trains and and the centre track serving express service in one direction (peak direction, or alternating at other times of the day). Some VIA services do use the local tracks, and they tend to be slower (i.e. stopping at Guildwood) in order to fit between the Lakeshore local services. Cutting off the express track at Scarborough would cause serious capacity and service flexibility issues.

The Stouffville trains make no stops along the corridor, so my best guess would be that the fourth track operates as express in the counter-peak direction, with peak-direction Stouffville trains sharing the express track with Lakeshore and VIA trains. A 5 track arrangement (2 Stouffville, 3 LSE/VIA) would be preferable, but I don't think there's room for 5 tracks, particularly around Danforth. I was surprised they thought they could even fit 4 tracks.

I don't think it is necessary to give VIA a specific track. From what I can tell, Metrolinx is quite reasonable to them and it would actually make matters worse to require inter-governmental co-ordination just to allow a train to switch tracks. Besides, outside of peak periods, they are the only ones using the centre track anyway (there aren't platforms at all stations so GO can't use it).

 

[MrsNesbitt]

I also heard that the plan is for 4 tracks west of Scarborough, but not that the Stouffville line gets its own pair. That would completely mess up the operation of the Lakeshore East and VIA services.

As far as I can tell, the current 3 tracks operate with the two outer tracks serving local trains and and the centre track serving express service in one direction (peak direction, or alternating at other times of the day). Some VIA services do use the local tracks, and they tend to be slower (i.e. stopping at Guildwood) in order to fit between the Lakeshore local services. Cutting off the express track at Scarborough would cause serious capacity and service flexibility issues.

The Stouffville trains make no stops along the corridor, so my best guess would be that the fourth track operates as express in the counter-peak direction, with peak-direction Stouffville trains sharing the express track with Lakeshore and VIA trains. A 5 track arrangement (2 Stouffville, 3 LSE/VIA) would be preferable, but I don't think there's room for 5 tracks, particularly around Danforth. I was surprised they thought they could even fit 4 tracks.

I don't think it is necessary to give VIA a specific track. From what I can tell, Metrolinx is quite reasonable to them and it would actually make matters worse to require inter-governmental co-ordination just to allow a train to switch tracks. Besides, outside of peak periods, they are the only ones using the centre track anyway (there aren't platforms at all stations so GO can't use it).

I agree. VIA doesn't really need a track of its own and 5 tracks would really be pushing the limits of space in the corridor. I've also been on express GO LSE that has used the centre track.

As a daily rider of LSE I can also say to the earlier posts that 80 km/h is definitely not normal for express trains. At the small portion west of Pickering paralleling the 401, expresses I've been on often match in pace the highway traffic until they start to slow down for Durham Junction.

Then of course Pickering to Whitby we just fly past everything at top speed. Makes my heart ache for what GO-ALRT could've been if it had all been that standard of track

 

[nfitz]

A 5 track arrangement (2 Stouffville, 3 LSE/VIA) would be preferable, but I don't think there's room for 5 tracks, particularly around Danforth. I was surprised they thought they could even fit 4 tracks.

There's easily room for 5 tracks at Danforth. Look how wide the ROW there is, compared to say north of the quarry lands, or even at Coxwell, which as always been able to support 4 tracks. Though looking at Coxwell, even though the ROW is narrower there, I'd think you could get 7 tracks through if you had to .. one south of the existing 3, and 3 to the north. Not sure if that's feasible in all locations though ... and obviously the Coxwell bridge structure is only wide enough for 4 tracks. Isn't the real constraint near Gerrard and Pape?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I agree. VIA doesn't really need a track of its own and 5 tracks would really be pushing the limits of space in the corridor. I've also been on express GO LSE that has used the centre track.

As a daily rider of LSE I can also say to the earlier posts that 80 km/h is definitely not normal for express trains. At the small portion west of Pickering paralleling the 401, expresses I've been on often match in pace the highway traffic until they start to slow down for Durham Junction.

Then of course Pickering to Whitby we just fly past everything at top speed. Makes my heart ache for what GO-ALRT could've been if it had all been that standard of track

Just a personal note, but having all those stops in Scarborough hurts the LSE's ridership imo.