GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Long Island Mike]

Why not more Lakeshore West train service to the Hamilton GO Centre Terminal?

Everyone: I obtained a copy of the current GO Lakeshore West train/bus timetable and I will ask:

"Why aren't there more trains operating to the Hamilton GO Centre?"

I noticed that there are the three trips scheduled to Hamilton in each weekday rush hour and with
half-hourly all-day service as close as Aldershot certain trains could be extended to Hamilton depending
on demand and ridership instead of terminating at the so-close yet so far Aldershot Station...

I also noticed that when Niagara Falls service resumes later in the Spring that those trains would have
to serve the old Hamilton CN station - which is a decent alternative - but it beats not stopping in HML...

I feel that Hamilton can generate its share of GO Transit Rail commuters and having the reverse option
without the forced bus transfer can work to benefit HML commuters...

LI MIKE

 

[innsertnamehere]

The old CN station no longer exists, at least in terms of a platform. (the building is still there)

They are building a new station across the street from the old CN station for the Pan Ams, which will run 2 additional daily GO trains and will also allow for the summer Niagara GO service to stop in Hamilton.

The main problem is storage space for trains, GO parks the 4 daily trips just to the east of the existing station and on the station platforms itself. Getting all day service as a full extension of the Lakeshore west line is in the plans but requires some very expensive upgrades to the rail junction.

Question: is there a layover facility in Barrie? I doubt they deadhead the trains back to Toronto after every service from Barrie.. could someone tell me where it is?

 

[TFC]

The old CN station no longer exists, at least in terms of a platform. (the building is still there)

They are building a new station across the street from the old CN station for the Pan Ams, which will run 2 additional daily GO trains and will also allow for the summer Niagara GO service to stop in Hamilton.

The main problem is storage space for trains, GO parks the 4 daily trips just to the east of the existing station and on the station platforms itself. Getting all day service as a full extension of the Lakeshore west line is in the plans but requires some very expensive upgrades to the rail junction.

Question: is there a layover facility in Barrie? I doubt they deadhead the trains back to Toronto after every service from Barrie.. could someone tell me where it is?

There is a layover facility in Barrie located immediately east of the Allandale Waterfront GO Station (along Lakeshore Drive).

 

[smallspy]

Everyone: I obtained a copy of the current GO Lakeshore West train/bus timetable and I will ask:

"Why aren't there more trains operating to the Hamilton GO Centre?"

I noticed that there are the three trips scheduled to Hamilton in each weekday rush hour and with
half-hourly all-day service as close as Aldershot certain trains could be extended to Hamilton depending
on demand and ridership instead of terminating at the so-close yet so far Aldershot Station...

I also noticed that when Niagara Falls service resumes later in the Spring that those trains would have
to serve the old Hamilton CN station - which is a decent alternative - but it beats not stopping in HML...

I feel that Hamilton can generate its share of GO Transit Rail commuters and having the reverse option
without the forced bus transfer can work to benefit HML commuters...

LI MIKE

The long and the short of it is: CP.

The four round-trips that begin and end at the Hamilton GO Centre have to travel on CP tracks for the first 2 and a half miles of their trip, including through the single-track Hamilton Tunnel. CP has decreed that if GO wants to increase the number of trains into the station by any significant amount that they would have to double-track the tunnel - not a cheap proposition.

There are things that GO can do to improve service however on the line - GO paid for an additional interchange track at Desjardins, which allowed them to run 3 round trips when the service started up to the station in 1996. The layover yard that opened at Hamilton in 2009 eliminated the deadheads that were necessary before, and so CP allowed for a 4th round trip. Later this year, GO hopes to run a reverse-commute trip into Hamilton and have that become a late-morning trip out - pending discussions, of course.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[ShonTron]

How many trips do CP freight trains make through Hamilton these days? Do they all take the Hamilton Subdivision up to the Galt?

 

[smallspy]

How many trips do CP freight trains make through Hamilton these days? Do they all take the Hamilton Subdivision up to the Galt?

I think they're down to 4 scheduled round-trips per day, plus the odd crude train that needs to find its way to CSX via Albany. And all of them do travel up to the Galt - one of them comes from the west, the rest head to Toronto.

The only movements that I'm not as familiar with are the trips down to the harbour.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[gweed123]

The old CN station no longer exists, at least in terms of a platform. (the building is still there)

They are building a new station across the street from the old CN station for the Pan Ams, which will run 2 additional daily GO trains and will also allow for the summer Niagara GO service to stop in Hamilton.

The main problem is storage space for trains, GO parks the 4 daily trips just to the east of the existing station and on the station platforms itself. Getting all day service as a full extension of the Lakeshore west line is in the plans but requires some very expensive upgrades to the rail junction.

If having the terminus at Hamilton James isn't a possibility, how realistic would it be to extend the line to Kenilworth or somewhere in Stoney Creek, and build a layover facility somewhere along the route in the vicinity of either of those stations? It sounds like a lot of the complications of train movements at Hamilton James come from having it be a terminus station. Just my two cents. I will admit I'm not very familiar with the line or the issues associated with it.

 

[Long Island Mike]

The long and the short of it is: CP.

The four round-trips that begin and end at the Hamilton GO Centre have to travel on CP tracks for the first 2 and a half miles of their trip, including through the single-track Hamilton Tunnel. CP has decreed that if GO wants to increase the number of trains into the station by any significant amount that they would have to double-track the tunnel - not a cheap proposition.

There are things that GO can do to improve service however on the line - GO paid for an additional interchange track at Desjardins, which allowed them to run 3 round trips when the service started up to the station in 1996. The layover yard that opened at Hamilton in 2009 eliminated the deadheads that were necessary before, and so CP allowed for a 4th round trip. Later this year, GO hopes to run a reverse-commute trip into Hamilton and have that become a late-morning trip out - pending discussions, of course.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Dan: Thanks for the reply...I am aware of the Hunter Street Tunnel "bottleneck" and I realize that it can be a problem...

Do you have an idea how many CP freight trains on average per day use that tunnel and route?

What I was thinking was service every 90 minutes to two hours into HML and to me the ultimate would be hourly service
meaning every other Lakeshore West train would go to HML...as mentioned just not workable with CP at this time...

With trains turning at HML laying over equipment would not be a problem for these added GO trains...

The desired "one-seat ride" from HML definitely can have its benefits...LI MIKE

 

[innsertnamehere]

If having the terminus at Hamilton James isn't a possibility, how realistic would it be to extend the line to Kenilworth or somewhere in Stoney Creek, and build a layover facility somewhere along the route in the vicinity of either of those stations? It sounds like a lot of the complications of train movements at Hamilton James come from having it be a terminus station. Just my two cents. I will admit I'm not very familiar with the line or the issues associated with it.

I believe the EA GO did on expansion into Hamilton and the Niagara peninsula a few years ago involved building a station as well as a layover facility in Stoney Creek, but only peak services would run out of it. All day service has never been intended to go past Hamilton.

Is the tunnel not designed for double tracks? the trench leading up to it appears to be..

 

[Northern Light]

I believe the EA GO did on expansion into Hamilton and the Niagara peninsula a few years ago involved building a station as well as a layover facility in Stoney Creek, but only peak services would run out of it. All day service has never been intended to go past Hamilton.

Is the tunnel not designed for double tracks? the trench leading up to it appears to be..

As I understand it; and someone more knowledgeable may correct me.............the tunnel used to be twin track; it was changed to one track (centered) in order to allow for greater height of freights cars. (double containers}

I'm not sure about the relative height of GO's rolling stock and the old alignment of the twin track.

But the issue isn't so much greater tunnel width as I understand it; but rather tunnel depth.

So twin tracks w/modern freight heights would require some dig-down; and that would also necessitate regrading the approaches.

But, as I said, someone more knowledgeable may be able to verify (or correct) that understanding.

 

[gweed123]

Thanks insertnamehere and Northern Light! I'll admit I haven't paid close attention to GO reports in the Hamilton area, or what the challenges associated with that section of track are. Glad to see that GO at least considered an extension though, even if it was only for peak period purposes.

 

[smallspy]

As I understand it; and someone more knowledgeable may correct me.............the tunnel used to be twin track; it was changed to one track (centered) in order to allow for greater height of freights cars. (double containers}

I'm not sure about the relative height of GO's rolling stock and the old alignment of the twin track.

But the issue isn't so much greater tunnel width as I understand it; but rather tunnel depth.

So twin tracks w/modern freight heights would require some dig-down; and that would also necessitate regrading the approaches.

But, as I said, someone more knowledgeable may be able to verify (or correct) that understanding.

You are correct: the tunnel was built by cut-and-cover as a double-track tunnel. It was singled in the 1960s with the advent of larger and taller freight cars.

I've never seen drawings so I can't confirm this but considering the timeframe when it was built I suspect that it is just barely wide enough for two tracks of modern freight equipment, and thus if any work is to be done to make it handle two tracks again it might as well be made wider as well. It wouldn't have to be regraded, however.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[ShonTron]

CP is rather silly not permitting more GO train movements through the Hunter Street tunnel - after all the single-track section of the Halton Sub just east of Brampton had many more CN freight movements, plus 8 GO movements and 6 VIA movements in the early 2000s before it was double tracked. Though certainly you couldn't have AD2W service unless CP abandoned freight service through there.

 

[smallspy]

CP is rather silly not permitting more GO train movements through the Hunter Street tunnel....

They are, especially since they make money on leasing track time to GO. But they also own the tunnel, and therefore they call the shots.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[rbt]

They are, especially since they make money on leasing track time to GO. But they also own the tunnel, and therefore they call the shots.

Once CP gives GO a time slot it's very difficult (politically) to take it away in the future when CP could sell it for a more profitable purpose.

Could you imagine the announcement? "CP Forces GO to Cut Hamilton Service by 80%"