Kind of interesting that the press conference was done at the Union GO terminal, yet the bulk of the new bus trips added are ones that don't even go to Union... Good to see that Hamilton-Square One route getting a boost though.
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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
vegeta_skyline
Senior Member
That's right, part of the GTS project is to remove those slow orders. The 35 at Weston was in place because of poor sightlines at the level crossings due to the track curvature approaching the church street level crossing. Speeds in excess of 35mph would likely have been in violation of the level crossing sightline standards for protected crossings.
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/railsafety/grade-crossings-standards-321.htm
After the Weston tunnel/underpass is opened this will be a none-issue.
The 35 at West Toronto was for the level railway crossing with the CP Mactier & North Toronto sub's. 35 was the maximum allowed speed at that diamond. Once the West Toronto tunnel/underpass is opened this will also be a none-issue.
Those PSO's - Permanent Slow Orders, preexisted any construction work related to the GTS project. The GTS project has of course resulted in additional speed restrictions, called TSO's - Temporary Slow Orders. But these TSO's are only present while track works is ongoing/the road bed has settle/or due to temporary track shifts. Those have of course resulted in additional delays in comparison to pre-GTS project travel times. But pre-GTS project travel time times will improve dramatically with the elimination of those two PSO's.
Consider this, it takes a fully loaded 12 coach consist takes almost 5 miles to accelerate from 35mph to 90mph. That means that an express train leaving Bramalea would almost never operating at full speed, with a hypothetical zone speed of 90mph. Of course that wasn't even the case pre-GTS project, wherre zone speeds are lower. One also has to consider that GO is upgrading the engines on their mp40's to a more powerful arrangement using two Cummings QSK60's which will provide a total 5200bhp. That's an increase of 1,200 horse power from the currently installed EMD 710 engine, the result of which will of course be decreased acceleration times and acceleration to the future maximum zone speed on the Weston sub (90mph) with then new engine should take about a mile less (4 vs 5 miles).
For comparison sake, here's how woefully inefficient travel was for an express train going down the Weston sub prior to the GTS project;
mile 17.0 speed - 30mph - train has just left Bramalea and is entering into the Weston sub
mile 17.0-13.0 speed - variable/increasing - accelerating to maximum zone speed of 80mph
mile 13.0-10.2 speed - 80mph - train reaches the maximum zone speed for this area, until it starts braking for the PSO in Weston
mile 10.2-9.3 speed - variable/decreasing
mile 9.3-8.2 speed - 35mph - PSO
mile 8.2-6.0 speed - variable/increasing - train accelerating during this time, somewhat assisted by declining grade, but does not reach maximum 80mph before braking for the PSO at West Toronto
mile 6.0-5.4 speed - variable/decreasing
mile 5.4-5.0 speed - 35mph - PSO
mile 5.0-4.0 speed - variable/increasing - train accelerating to maximum zone speed of 55mph
mile 4.0-2.0 speed - 55 mph - train reaches to maximum zone speed for this area until it starts breaking for lower zone speed in the USRCorridor
And here's how the same express train with travel post GTS-project, post engine upgrade;
mile 17.0 speed - 30mph - train has just left Bramalea and is entering into the Weston sub
mile 17.0-13.0 speed - variable/increasing - accelerating to new maximum zone speed of 90mph
mile 13.0-10.5 speed - 90mph
mile 10.5-10.0 speed - variable/decreasing - likely will be a PSO in Weston due to track curvature/the tunnel, but only a slight reduction from the zone speed to about 75-80mph
mile 10.0-8.5 speed - 75-80mph
mile 8.5-7.5/7.0 speed - variable/increasing - accelerating to new maximum zone speed of 90mph
mile 7.0-3.0 speed - 90mph
mile 3.0-2.5 speed - variable/decreasing - the zone speed will likely not be much higher than the current 55mph for the last mile or two due to the tight curve just south of Queen st(mile 2.46).
The current express from Bramalea takes 31 minutes to get to Union. I don't remember exactly how long it took prior to the GTS-project, but it likely was at still least 23-24 minutes. Post GTS-project the same train should only take about 13-14 minutes to clear the entire 17 mile Weston sub.
TOareaFan
Superstar
^Can always count on you for information of quality and value.
As soon as I posted my query I realized the answer was "no" due to the fact that (in laymen's terms) the whole point of the GTS was to improve things so, clearly, things should be better....but wow, an express train from Bramalea will be 14 minutes to Union (is that what you are saying?).
If that is right, a train from KW that currently takes 2:05 if it were express from Bramalea that would reduce that to about 1:55 but after GTS that could be down to 1:38? So there is the 27 minutes relative to today right there?
As soon as I posted my query I realized the answer was "no" due to the fact that (in laymen's terms) the whole point of the GTS was to improve things so, clearly, things should be better....but wow, an express train from Bramalea will be 14 minutes to Union (is that what you are saying?).
If that is right, a train from KW that currently takes 2:05 if it were express from Bramalea that would reduce that to about 1:55 but after GTS that could be down to 1:38? So there is the 27 minutes relative to today right there?
vegeta_skyline
Senior Member
Made possible by recent the activation of the CTC system up to mile 30. Which was about time since they only had the hardware in place since late last year.
Those trains will be running equipment up to Maple but probably not straight from Willowbrook. Depends on how early they are, but most likely they will have completed a run on the Lakeshore first.
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innsertnamehere
Superstar
Those are huge improvements.. I'm impressed. Couple the express service with some other speed upgrades on the way to Kitchener and you could easily have it under an 1:30.
As for Barrie, I hope one is a later train. The last Barrie train leaves at 6:10 right now which is rather early..
As for Barrie, I hope one is a later train. The last Barrie train leaves at 6:10 right now which is rather early..
vegeta_skyline
Senior Member
But of course you can count on me
I'm making a few assumptions there since I have yet to see a new timetable for the subdivision post GTS-project and likely won't see one until early next year, but certainly nothing outlandish.
Its been established that the zone speed for the line will be increasing to 90mph and I'd be shocked if there are any PSO's on the line post GTS-project below 70mph, the lowest possible one being around Weston. Which I estimate will be about 75-80, based off comparisons to a very similar 75mph curve on the LE line at around Makham rd and also its not as tight as the 70mph curve just west of the Exhibition on the LW line.
An express train should average 70-75mph on the Weston, the only times it would be below that speed are the first and last 3 miles.
*Edit* I'm forgetting about the slow last 1/2 mile, 15mph trudge(add 2 minutes) through the USCR into Union station, that'll drop the average speed quite a bit. Still a train should make it from Bramalea into Union in under 17 minutes.
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nfitz
Superstar
The current VIA schedule has the morning train leaving Kitchener at 9:10 AM arriving Union at 10:50 AM, taking only 1:40. Presumably there's a bit of buffer in that. And it still stops at Malton (but not Mount Pleasant and Bramalea). The second train takes 1:45.
So hopefully post-construction an express from Kitchener could be faster.
Westbound the VIA travel times are currently 1:41 and 1:40.
http://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/pdfs/schedules/winter2014/Timetable2014_HIVER_24-25.pdf
TFC
Active Member
This is awesome news! Thanks for sharing this.
That makes sense, similar to the 9:40 Bramalea train originally starting out in Lincolnville.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Bit off topic but does it stop at Malton? Back when GO and VIA had those passes that allowed (for a slight premium) GO passengers to travel on VIA from (I think) Brampton, Georgetown or Oshawa (in lieu of more GO Trains)......when I first started using the service it stopped at Malton.....but it stopped stopping there shortly thereafter.....did they reinstate the stop?
nfitz
Superstar
Yes, in the last year or so. There was some discussion about that somewhere. And it's now shown on the timetable I linked.
smallspy
Senior Member
There will be PSOs at the major grade separations of 75mph, due to the vertical curves leading into, through and out of them.
The zone speed through USRC is supposed to be upgraded to 60mph upon completion of all of the signalling work, except for between Market St. and Blue Jay Way where it will be 45mph. The ladders will be upped to 25mph in the diverging.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
The zone speed through USRC is supposed to be upgraded to 60mph upon completion of all of the signalling work, except for between Market St. and Blue Jay Way where it will be 45mph. The ladders will be upped to 25mph in the diverging.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
Any idea when that signalling upgrade is supposed to be complete? I have to admit, it's quite annoying that the train has to crawl into and out of Union like it currently does.
nfitz
Superstar
That's hardly new though is it? I seem to recall it being painfully slow as far back to the 1970s ... at least on the east side. Seems to me it's actually been faster in the last few months.
Nope, hardly news. I was just wondering when the upgrades were going to be complete so that it wouldn't be faster for me to choose to run to Union from Spadina than it would be to be on the GO train from Spadina to Union.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
The trains do seem to have picked up speed over the last few months in the east.. I find they are actually picking up speed beside the Distillery rather than sitting idle. They still crawl into Union though.