GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[TOareaFan]

Honestly it should be 15 minutes for both Peel and Halton. I would only say Halton would go first because Hamilton is coming on board in 2015 which is around 18 months from now, and they are getting 30. But Brampton should get more then 1tph.

There is no commitment for, even, the 1tph............but that would be nice.

 

[DKsan]

The LRT is only going to Brampton because there is no logical place to end it in Mississauga.....it really is a Mississauga project that stubs into Brampton and, relative to its cost, adds very little useful upgrade to Brampton from a transit perspective.

The increased GO service (as I may have mentioned) is simply not enough for a city this size and growing.....it is also (I may also have mentioned) not a good enough return for the amount of money spent.

We have to move away from just tallying up dollars and saying "they got this spent so we should get the same" and start to look at the utility of the money spent. Brampton (and the whole region) would get far more value from all day GO trains than anything the LRT will provide.......and most of that investment has already been made!

Considering the Hurontario corridor is one of the three busiest transit corridors in the city, mostly south of Brampton GO, I think your "Hurontario LRT is a very little useful upgrade" is completely silly. Where are people in Brampton going? Are they all going to Toronto? What if more of them are going to work in Mississauga, or York? Why does every city in the GTA needs a post-secondary institution (mind you, we already have a post-grad for Algoma, and Sheridan College's expanding campus)?

GO service is definitely needed...or is it? Do we know whether the trains would actually be useful if they ran all day? I've heard more clamouring for just extra express GO buses more than trains.

 

[nfitz]

They are not shy about talking about the 5 new return trips starting in 2015.....they are positively enthusiastic when asked about those!

Only 5? They suspended almost that many temporarily before construction started! I guess that demonstrates how ineffective that Weston NIMBY group is, that they never pushed for increased GO service, and were too busy worrying about diesels, loss of road crossings, and the Air Rail service. They've actually failed to push for the one thing that would benefit their community!

So, anyone who repeats what they say (either a concerned taxpayer or a mayor) is spouting unbelievable hearsay......but their vague words should mean it will happen sooner? Bizarrely twisted logic which I, bizarrely, hope is true.

Who knows ... the promises tend to be only as good as the current government lasts. Given the government has changed, and new governments tend to cancel old promises (even from the same party ... remember Miller?), it's a miracle that we actually have some continuity on this with the new government. Who will be the Premier in 2020 is probably the biggest factor on what service there will be. There are some outstanding promises about increased GO service that have been waiting near 40 years now.

Honestly it should be 15 minutes for both Peel and Halton. I would only say Halton would go first because Hamilton is coming on board in 2015 which is around 18 months from now, and they are getting 30. But Brampton should get more then 1tph.

Halton has 3 GO lines. It's the Milton and Kitchener service they seem to be complaining about more so than the Lakeshore service that goes to Hamilton.

 

[TOareaFan]

Considering the Hurontario corridor is one of the three busiest transit corridors in the city, mostly south of Brampton GO, I think your "Hurontario LRT is a very little useful upgrade" is completely silly.

And that market is being quite well served by Zum......which has room to expand further. Would anyone be recommending LRT from Nelson to Square One (given the volume of demand) if we're not the northern stub of Mississauga's project.....i doubt it. Wise spending measures the Impact versus the cost.......the incremental improvements that LRT offers over Zum/expanded Zum are not, on their own, supportable......from a purely Brampton perspective, LRT on Hurontario should not be at the top of the priority list.......sorry if you view that as Silly.

Where are people in Brampton going? Are they all going to Toronto? What if more of them are going to work in Mississauga, or York?

They are going to all three.....Zum/expanded Zum is showing to be very effective method of moving people to Mississauga and York after 2016 it will also connect very well to the Toronto subway and, eventually, Pearson International.

Like most 905 communities, this does not diminish the need for frequent and reliable rail links to the main employment zone in Canada.......all day GO Trains are the way to achieve that.

Why does every city in the GTA needs a post-secondary institution (mind you, we already have a post-grad for Algoma, and Sheridan College's expanding campus)?

The value and benefits that a university campus bring to a community is a long discussion that goes beyond the scope of a transit discussion. It was listed by me as an example of infrastructure that the Province provides support to in lots of communities but (along with healthcare, transit, roads) seems reluctant to provide in Brampton.

GO service is definitely needed...or is it? Do we know whether the trains would actually be useful if they ran all day? I've heard more clamouring for just extra express GO buses more than trains.

We are, clearly, speaking to and hearing different people on this.

 

[Dan416]

I definitely think Milton should be a higher priority than the Kitchener line. That said, they're doing all this work on the Georgetown/Kitchener line and it is disheartening to hear what they have planned for when the work is done. I think we'll have to wait and see what the service looks like at opening day and afterward.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I agree, but I think the reason that Metrolinx is reluctant to build all day 2 way on the milton line is the technical difficulties of the line being owned by someone else.

 

[TOareaFan]

Only 5? They suspended almost that many temporarily before construction started! I guess that demonstrates how ineffective that Weston NIMBY group is, that they never pushed for increased GO service, and were too busy worrying about diesels, loss of road crossings, and the Air Rail service. They've actually failed to push for the one thing that would benefit their community!

I have explained the 5 so many times I assumed everyone had seen the reconciliation. Sorry......relative to the pre-construction time (ie before $1.2B was spent) it is 10 new train movements (5 return trips).....it restores the cancelled trips (in number but hopefully a more useful schedule) plus the five......so the expenditure is netting 5 new return trips.

There are some outstanding promises about increased GO service that have been waiting near 40 years now.

. All day GO to Brampton may be one of them. I only started communicating with GO on the matter in 1988....so I can only vouch for the last 25. Each time I was told it would happen....we agree.....be patient....major work has to happen first. The truly maddening thing is Those major works were always union station improvements, Strachan crossing, the diamond flyover and double tracking between Bramalea and Brampton. - 2015 will see all of those done and now we are being told to be patient......2030 will come along.

 

[TOareaFan]

I definitely think Milton should be a higher priority than the Kitchener line. That said, they're doing all this work on the Georgetown/Kitchener line and it is disheartening to hear what they have planned for when the work is done. I think we'll have to wait and see what the service looks like at opening day and afterward.

I would disagree on that prioritizing but we shouldn't have to have the discussion......clearly they should both receive the level of service available on the Lakeshore......or we could just say "screw it let's make the disparity even bigger and increase the Lakeshore even more"

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Only 5? They suspended almost that many temporarily before construction started! I guess that demonstrates how ineffective that Weston NIMBY group is, that they never pushed for increased GO service, and were too busy worrying about diesels, loss of road crossings, and the Air Rail service. They've actually failed to push for the one thing that would benefit their community!

Who knows ... the promises tend to be only as good as the current government lasts. Given the government has changed, and new governments tend to cancel old promises (even from the same party ... remember Miller?), it's a miracle that we actually have some continuity on this with the new government. Who will be the Premier in 2020 is probably the biggest factor on what service there will be. There are some outstanding promises about increased GO service that have been waiting near 40 years now.

Halton has 3 GO lines. It's the Milton and Kitchener service they seem to be complaining about more so than the Lakeshore service that goes to Hamilton.

He means they'll go back to the 2007 schedule before construction. Halton does have three lines, but the current one does serve the most people. It's intresting that Georgetown wants rail but no bus from Brampton.

 

[nfitz]

I have explained the 5 so many times I assumed everyone had seen the reconciliation. Sorry......relative to the pre-construction time (ie before $1.2B was spent) it is 10 new train movements (5 return trips).....it restores the cancelled trips (in number but hopefully a more useful schedule) plus the five......so the expenditure is netting 5 new return trips.

I've probably seen it, but I just don't remember ... sorry.

If they return to the original schedule, and simply add in trains every 2 hours in the gap, that would give all-day and evening service on a 2-hour frequency. Which would be significant progress from what it is now. Though hopefully they add a second trainset, which would allow them to extend the all-day service from Bramalea to Mount Pleasant.

He means they'll go back to the 2007 schedule before construction.

Is the 2007 schedule doesn't look that different from the 2010 schedule.

It's intresting that Georgetown wants rail but no bus from Brampton.

Almost surprising given that with a lack of local transit in Georgetown, the GO Bus effectively provides the only transit they have through the town.

 

[TFC]

Maybe Georgetown/Halton Region will realize that the bulk of GO's market starts/ends at Mt. Pleasant, and that service to Georgetown is not warranted.
Regarding 2WAD service to Brampton, think of the train utilization. The 9:40am train departure from Bramalea attracts around 300 people. The people at GO are a bit more familiar with the numbers, and are constrained by budgets. Perhaps running trains to Brampton isn't the best use of their resources.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Maybe Georgetown/Halton Region will realize that the bulk of GO's market starts/ends at Mt. Pleasant, and that service to Georgetown is not warranted.
Regarding 2WAD service to Brampton, think of the train utilization. The 9:40am train departure from Bramalea attracts around 300 people. The people at GO are a bit more familiar with the numbers, and are constrained by budgets. Perhaps running trains to Brampton isn't the best use of their resources.

Many if there were more trains the number would go up.

 

[TOareaFan]

Maybe Georgetown/Halton Region will realize that the bulk of GO's market starts/ends at Mt. Pleasant, and that service to Georgetown is not warranted.
Regarding 2WAD service to Brampton, think of the train utilization. The 9:40am train departure from Bramalea attracts around 300 people. The people at GO are a bit more familiar with the numbers, and are constrained by budgets. Perhaps running trains to Brampton isn't the best use of their resources.

That is a bit of an orphan train....not really sure what purpose it serves or is meant to serve. It also draws virtually no traffic from stations west of it via the GO Bus service that connects to it......the connecting bus at Brampton leaves Brampton at 9 a.m. so when you add those 40 minutes to the 40 minutes the train takes, that is a 80 minute trip to Union versus the typical 49 - 51 minute commute that Brampton commuters have been trained to expect. When competing with the car, at 9:00 a.m (on most days) it does not take 80 minutes to get from Brampton GO to DT Toronto. If driving is not an option but your time is that flexible (or you are daytripping) from Brampton you are far better sleeping an extra 55 minutes and taking the 31 bus which is scheduled to arrive at Union at 10:40.

Is your 300 number just Bramalea boardings or all stops?

I always think of the last train added when KW extension occurred. The one that leaves Brampton @ 8:18 (sorry, not sure of the times at other stations) gets to Union @ 9:08......i first rode it on its second day in service......300 would be a huge exaggeration of how many were on it that day.....i would guess less than 100 by the time it got to Union......within a year I would say it arrives at Union no less than 75% full and I have seen cars with standers.

Similar when the 6:50 pm westbound train started (was 6:45 pm back then). Started off with low ridership then grew steadily and leaped when it extended beyond Bramalea (those bus connections to Brampton were bad enough so as to actually discourage use of that train - especially in winter when the buses were unpredictable and the stops were windswept and unsheltered).

The 9:40 train out of Bramalea is the only service the line has received that didn't quickly gain a following (although I should say the couple of times I have used it I would suggest much more than 300 got off at Union - but that is a small sample size of rides) I would think being so isolated (1:20 or so after the previous departure), starting in Bramalea not further west and having no natural return trip to match it are all factors.

 

[TOareaFan]

I think what Brampton has had, more than anything, is very ineffectual representation at Queens Park. For fun I searched Hansard.......searching for the word "Brampton" with the subject matter of GO Transit.

It reveals that this combination has only been raised in the Ontario legislature 9 times - since 1981!.

Of those 9 times:

7 of them are inconsequential references to Brampton along with other communities.....

1 is a soft question lobbed by a Brampton member at the then minister of transportation so that he could announce the opening of Mount Pleasant station

the 9th is a member from Brampton defending the Blue 22 (now Union Pearson Express) train to the airport against opposition from the Weston Community.

So, in the last 32 years, there does not seem to be any record of any MPP from Brampton (government or opposition) standing up in the house and asking "When will there be all day GO service to Brampton?" or "When will the citizens of Brampton get equal return on the transit file for their tax dollars that citizens in Oakville and Pickering and other communities near the lake get".

The question has just never been asked on their behalf.

I know that only a portion of the work that a MPP or Minister does gets done in the house (i guess that is why we give them offices and phones ) but it really is surprising that while I have been asking members, ministers of Transportation, heads of GO, GO people this very question for 25 years....no one elected to ask those types of questions ever has.

I am going to resist the urge to do a similar search for "Brampton" "population to hospital bed ratio"....I think it might explain too much

 

[JayBeeGooner]

Lakeshore East and West getting 30 minute all day service starting June 29th. Between Aldershot and Oshawa.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...ry_30_minutes_all_day_on_lakeshore_lines.html