GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[rbt]

78% of the GO Transit operating cost, or of the Metrolinx operating cost?

Metrolinx but excluding Presto. They don't break down their departments in the financial reports despite having some subsidy components targetted directly at those departments (Presto they mention but it isn't the only string). They also don't describe what is in the operations or capital budgets in the online reports. For example, 10 year elevator/escalator overhauls can be put into either budget. Toronto budgets give significantly more detail of the capital components.

TTC is well known for taking a large number of operations maintenance items to achieve a high price tag then tossing it in the capital budget. They do it because in Toronto capital dollars are easier to get than operations dollars even if the item it is being spent on and the dollar value being spent is the same. Metrolinx may be doing the same which artificially inflates the Cost Recovery Ratio; they also state it is best if it is high.


I much prefer VIA's annual reports as you have an idea of how much each route costs to run, manpower required, and support functions like the central office are handled separately.

 

[TOareaFan]

2011 to 2012 report:

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/presentations/BoardMtgJune212012_MX201112AnnualReport-EN.pdf

Contributions due from Province of Ontario ($96M in 2012, $21M in 2011: 20% of 2012's went to Presto)
Contributions due from Municipalities ($750,000 in 2012, $2.7M in 2011: phased out this revenue stream)
Contributions due from Government of Canada ($28M in 2012, $49M in 2011)

"due from" is tricky because it's a bill due for prior years too. For the province, it's that years contribution. For the other 2, it is mostly non-payment from previous years. Only the province is making a noticeable operating budget contribution at this time. I think the feds kick in $100K or so.

Thanks for your help and very good discussion but that brings us back to what started this number crunching in the first place.

Many things will change if Metrolinx has a predictable $1.5B/year funding stream in 2015; perhaps not quickly (engineer training and the like) but eventually.

If they promised it now they'd have to talk Brampton, Kitchener, ... into paying the bill.

Why would those municipalities pay the bill? Are residents in Oakville (to pick one) paying some special GO Transit tax to pay for their current service level?

They may be....but I have not heard that municipalities have contributed financially to GO service expansions.

It seems, as you point out, the operational subsidy is a provincial matter (and unless they are willing to break out the subsidy by line/municipality it probably should be) and, again, the reason they are not saying that the KW line will get full service in 2015 can't be to avoid asking Brampton and KW to pay for it.

 

[rbt]

It seems, as you point out, the operational subsidy is a provincial matter (and unless they are willing to break out the subsidy by line/municipality it probably should be) and, again, the reason they are not saying that the KW line will get full service in 2015 can't be to avoid asking Brampton and KW to pay for it.

Yes, the province volunteered to take it over to silence the complaints of municipalities and end their squabbling.

If municipalities begin to have an opinion on service levels again then they will be asked to kick in again.

A better question to ask is how was the Barrie line chosen for experimental weekend service? I don't believe anything official has been posted and we know it wasn't selected from a hat. I would expect it's a similar reason that the Spadina line spontaneously went to VCC 5 to 10 years earlier than anticipated by TTC or York Region.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Yes, the province volunteered to take it over to silence the complaints of municipalities and end their squabbling.

If municipalities begin to have an opinion on service levels again then they will be asked to kick in again.

A better question to ask is how was the Barrie line chosen for experimental weekend service? I don't believe anything official has been posted and we know it wasn't selected from a hat. I would expect it's a similar reason that the Spadina line spontaneously went to VCC 5 to 10 years earlier than anticipated by TTC or York Region.

GO owns all of the Barrie line, that's why.

 

[rbt]

GO owns all of the Barrie line, that's why.

They own the majority of the track they run on with Milton being the big exception. Certainly enough to run a core (central 40km) service on the lines which is roughly what Barrie received last year.

Maps were posted in this thread around page 123, unfortunately the PDF from cn.ca and images posted by vegeta_skyline are no longer available.

From the top of my head, I recall them owning all of Richmond Hill, all of Stouffville, Georgetown to Union on the Kitchener line, Lake Shore West was from about Aldershot to Union and all of Lake Shore east (IIRC, Pickering to Oshawa is shared corridor, each owning 2 tracks).

 

[vegeta_skyline]

Maps were posted in this thread around page 123, unfortunately the PDF from cn.ca and images posted by vegeta_skyline are no longer available.

Not to worry! You can still reference the updated system ownership map here;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/69004511@N03/6803791654/in/photostream

A better question to ask is how was the Barrie line chosen for experimental weekend service? I don't believe anything official has been posted and we know it wasn't selected from a hat. I would expect it's a similar reason that the Spadina line spontaneously went to VCC 5 to 10 years earlier than anticipated by TTC or York Region.

So your wondering why the Barrie service almost always gets everything first? Such as weekend service, double engines to maintain schedules and avoid wheel slip issues, quiet zone test, first line to get a parking garage outside of lakeshore, first line to make use of a new passing siding, etc etc.
You ever wonder where GO's head honcho's live?

 

[rbt]

Not to worry! You can still reference the updated system ownership map here;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/69004511@N03/6803791654/in/photostream

Excellent. Thanks.

 

[Dan416]

Not to worry! You can still reference the updated system ownership map here;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/69004511@N03/6803791654/in/photostream



So your wondering why the Barrie service almost always gets everything first? Such as weekend service, double engines to maintain schedules and avoid wheel slip issues, quiet zone test, first line to get a parking garage outside of lakeshore, first line to make use of a new passing siding, etc etc.
You ever wonder where GO's head honcho's live?

I guess no one who works at GO lives in Peel Region.

 

[CDL.TO]

I guess no one who works at GO lives in Peel Region.

Only the freakin' CEO.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

I guess no one who works at GO lives in Peel Region.

Only the freakin' CEO.

The Premier himself could commute on that line and it wouldn't mean squat.
It doesn't matter how much power you hold provincially, your not going to be able to tell a federally regulated class 1 railway what to do.

 

[innsertnamehere]

*herself

 

[CDL.TO]

The Premier himself could commute on that line and it wouldn't mean squat.
It doesn't matter how much power you hold provincially, your not going to be able to tell a federally regulated class 1 railway what to do.

Bingo. There's no need to assume that GO or Metrolinx have some sort of bias against Peel or Mississauga.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

South Mississauga has hourly GO Service as well. Brampton has nothing.

 

[Dan416]

More like the very southern tip of Mississauga has hourly service...but who's splitting hairs

 

[gweed123]

More like the very southern tip of Mississauga has hourly service...but who's splitting hairs

I think what makes it harder for Mississauga is that it's much less oriented around the Lakeshore GO line than either Halton or Durham is. When you look at either of those regions, so many of the bus routes are GO-centric (starting at, terminating at, or passing through a GO station). The development pattern is also lengthwise parallel to the Lakeshore line (doesn't go north of Dundas except in a few spots), where as Mississauga is largely perpendicular to the Lakeshore line.