GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[innsertnamehere]

210 total.

 

[DavidJamesTO]

Also consider where the traffic is coming from at this end of the line, especially Kitchener--only one bus line, minimal parking, and local employment for many of the downtown residents. Obviously the traffic levels won't compare to Brampton or Oakville.

 

[canarob]

I get that you have to start somewhere, but 210 is what, 4 buses on one of the other lines? This extension certainly wasn't driven by demand.

 

[TOareaFan]

I get that you have to start somewhere, but 210 is what, 4 buses on one of the other lines? This extension certainly wasn't driven by demand.

No, I think this extension was driven by politics. The 210, however, is not the total ridership that the extension has created. The extension came with one additional train that arrives at Union at just after 9. I think this train would have been impossible to add with the limitations of over night parking/storage a the previous terminus (Georgetown).....that train is running nearly full now as it arrives at Union. This extension, like so many transit improvements, needs to be looked at in its total impact not just the number of riders from two stations (which are small, granted).

 

[EnviroTO]

A count of 210 isn't too bad to start. That would take 4 buses, or 1 and a half bi-levels to accommodate. If 210 parking spaces are no longer required in downtown Toronto that is a significant chunk of real estate. As mentioned there are 9 more stops on the line to fill the rest of the cars with to although there obviously isn't a need for a Guelph express yet the run itself is well used by the time it gets downtown. I think the important part to note is ridership has gone from 65 to 110 in Guelph... that is a very positive indicator.

 

[wolfewood]

If I might add, as a regular user of this train it is having an impact in the city too I believe. A large number of people I see in the morning are commuters but there are also quite a few students, seniors and plain old touristy types. Sure this isn't what GO is made for but if my childhood was any indication, the vast majority (everyone but the students really) would have driven to Toronto, if they went at all.

As EnviroTO and TOareaFan have pointed out, the train was necessary anyway (since Georgetown couldn't handle a new one) and there are more and more people using the train everyday. Give it time. Guelph is slowly being absorbed as a western edge to the GTA and eastern edge to Waterloo Region and South-Western Ontario. If any station among these new three are to become well-used, it's Guelph.

 

[nfitz]

I think the important part to note is ridership has gone from 65 to 110 in Guelph... that is a very positive indicator.

Indicator of what ... that they cancelled the VIA train that departed between the two GO departures?

 

[royalrivers]

It is a indicator that Guelph is not going to do another 1993.

The growth may look small, however, that is a 'average' number. I have been on trains where the ridership exiting the 6:15pm train in Guelph was well over 100 people. The number of University students I have seen using the service has also grown, especially around weekends (Fri Am/PM and Mon Am/Pm). There is even a handful of passengers getting on in Guelph going to Kitchener in the evenings.

The main problem for Guelph: Parking.

Guelph City Staff seem content without having it stating in Dec 2011 "they saw most passengers get dropped off/picked up, took the bus, walked or rode a bike in" which of course if very silly statement from them. Kitchener and now Acton has some spots (not very well used in KW right now) but at least they are there. Guelph needs to reconsider quickly if it wants more then 110 average. That number could be WAY bigger, but everyone I talk to says the same thing: Where is the Parking?.

One of the downfalls about the service is the length of the trip. Compared to the Greyhound, the train loses or is matched (on some schedules) on the length of time from Kitchener to Toronto direct and Guelph to Toronto direct. That is the next battle, the get people off the Greyhound and over to the trains, however, to do that, they need to make 1 train an 'express', that is running it simply running the normal train from Kitchener but go express from Bramalea to Toronto. The numbers tend to drop off closer to Toronto and there are enough trains doing local service there already. Right off the bat you drop 30 minutes off the schedule in terms of number of stops (its still only cuts 10-20 minutes over all) and make it reasonable from Kitchener and really fast from Guelph.

 

[DKsan]

What prevents Kitchener commuters to Guelph from using it (KWC and Guelph apparently share quite a bit of commuter traffic between them) is the timing of the trains, and probably the lack of good core transit on the Guelph side. The lack of good transit on the Kitchener side could probably occur...except there is no reverse commuter service.

I completely understand that GEXR is the problem with the track quality, signalling, etc, but unless there is good core service between those two regions, the ridership won't be as high as it could be from those two stations.

 

[ShonTron]

One of the downfalls about the service is the length of the trip. Compared to the Greyhound, the train loses or is matched (on some schedules) on the length of time from Kitchener to Toronto direct and Guelph to Toronto direct. That is the next battle, the get people off the Greyhound and over to the trains, however, to do that, they need to make 1 train an 'express', that is running it simply running the normal train from Kitchener but go express from Bramalea to Toronto. The numbers tend to drop off closer to Toronto and there are enough trains doing local service there already. Right off the bat you drop 30 minutes off the schedule and make it reasonable from Kitchener and really fast from Guelph.

I don't know why the one express train from Georgetown wasn't one of the two extended. In any event, I should think that running one additional express train into Union, especially with VIA's morning commuter run cut, would be feasible, even with all the construction on the Weston Sub. It's not like it wouldn't fill up on day one. With two trains stored at Kitchener, there's nothing stopping GO from storing an additional trainset in Georgetown.

Then Brampton would finally have more AM peak trains than it did in 1981 (it's been four in, four out for the peak commuting hours for 33 years, though shoulder peak trains and the local from Bramalea have been added).

 

[wolfewood]

And even if it isn't now, when the work is done in 2015 it should be among the first things done. Personally I still think that 12 car trains is a better immediate solution. Won't help us in Guelph (parking, better local transit and better schedule times are the biggest needs) but it'll help further down the line and, minus not having enough bi-levels, it would be an incredibly easy solution, even without considering the other options.

 

[gweed123]

Is there the potential of adding a 'suburban' station on either the east or the west side of Guelph that could handle the parking? It seems like a suburban-style GO station would be more practical for a larger parking area, as opposed to the relatively compact urban area that the current downtown Guelph station is in. I'm thinking kind of a Brampton vs Bramlea scenario.

Is there any kind of a possibility for that, or is that completely out of the question?

 

[innsertnamehere]

Stouffville and lincolnville is another good (although smaller) example of that.

 

[gweed123]

Stouffville and lincolnville is another good (although smaller) example of that.

Yup, there are quite a few examples of that on the GO system: Port Credit/Clarkson, Allandale/Barrie South, Brampton/Mount Pleasant, Newmarket/East Gwillimbury, Markham/Unionville, and I'm sure there are a couple more.

I would think for Guelph somewhere around Watson Rd would be good. Easily accessible for most of Guelph, but with enough land for a decent sized parking lot.

Kitchener is a bit harder to do because the line just north of Victoria Street is pretty surrounded by development.

 

[ShonTron]

There were detailed plans for a station at Breslau, potential stations on both sides of Guelph (Watson Parkway was indeed studied) and station and yard on the west side of Kitchener. All of these would include GO's sea of parking.

Acton was also included in those plans, its opening this week is likely the first step towards adding additional stations, especially now that track and signal upgrades were finally given the green light. There's also work around Silver Junction (west of Georgetown) right now.