GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[reaperexpress]

Wait why

This is indeed the question. @smallspy indicated that it was impossible to activate only half of the Highland interlocking, but I've also heard conflicting info from others who say that it is possible to activate its south crossover without needing to wait for the Highland Creek bridge to be completed.

 

[smallspy]

There are no CSA trainees right now, which means there are no new employees are being actively trained at the moment.
On the other hand there are 10 CTO and 8 QCTO trainees out right now, so people are continuing to move up within the company.

There are more CSAs than there are CTOs and QCTOs by a margin, to the point that they were running a number of trains with 2 CSAs as a means of keeping people working. Upgrading more of the CSAs is simply re-balancing the forces.

There are 40+ trains per day between Aldershot and Toronto, but only 3 trains per day to St. Catharines and Niagara. It is wild that they decided to keep stopping the 3 Niagara trains at Aldershot to benefit Aldershot-Toronto passengers at the expense of the Niagara passengers who have no other train options. (And West Harbour passengers who have half as many train options). Aldershot station provides very little value to people heading to/from Niagara now that Niagara trains can efficiently stop at Hamilton West Harbour.

Aldershot has a substantial parking lot - West Harbour does not. And due to the way that Hamilton is laid out, most people living on the escarpment or to the south find their commutes faster to go to either Aldershot or Burlington.

This is indeed the question. @smallspy indicated that it was impossible to activate only half of the Highland interlocking, but I've also heard conflicting info from others who say that it is possible to activate its south crossover without needing to wait for the Highland Creek bridge to be completed.

I had been told by someone involved in the signal design of the plant at Highland some time ago that the rails were not long enough north of the crossovers to allow for enough signal connections to allow it to be activated, but that's since been corrected by others. And in fact, the Highland interlocking has been activated in its current state.

Dan

 

[reaperexpress]

Aldershot has a substantial parking lot - West Harbour does not. And due to the way that Hamilton is laid out, most people living on the escarpment or to the south find their commutes faster to go to either Aldershot or Burlington.

It does not matter how convenient Hamiltonians find Aldershot for commutes to Toronto, because there are already 42 other trains available for that purpose. These 3 trains are the only trains going to Niagara so they should be optimized for travel to and from Niagara.

There's plenty of available parking capacity at West Harbour for people heading from Hamilton to Niagara. And it's definitely not faster to backtrack all the way to Aldershot and ride the train an additional 12 minutes to West Harbour en route to Niagara.

I had been told by someone involved in the signal design of the plant at Highland some time ago that the rails were not long enough north of the crossovers to allow for enough signal connections to allow it to be activated, but that's since been corrected by others. And in fact, the Highland interlocking has been activated in its current state.

Ah okay. Thanks for the clarification. Then it truly is a mystery why the second track between Agincourt and Kennedy hasn't been put into service yet.

 

[WB62]

There are more CSAs than there are CTOs and QCTOs by a margin, to the point that they were running a number of trains with 2 CSAs as a means of keeping people working. Upgrading more of the CSAs is simply re-balancing the forces.

Oh I know, I was just clarifying that hiring isn’t happening right now, or if it has resumed it hasn’t been long enough for classes to be out training yet.

 

[crs1026]

The Kennedy (Oakworth actually) to Highland double track segment doesn’t contribute much added capacity unless other segments are completed. Maybe when the back track is installed at Mount Joy?
I would speculate that without more passing track, any added service would have to terminate at Unionville, and ML may not like the optics of a service where half the ridership has to worry about whether they need to take a bus link to carry on from there. The hourly train to Mount Joy is at least a consistent pattern.

There may also be a need to wait until Barrie can handle half-hourly service so things are equalised all round, and run throughs are more feasible

- Paul

 

[reaperexpress]

The Kennedy (Oakworth actually) to Highland double track segment doesn’t contribute much added capacity unless other segments are completed. Maybe when the back track is installed at Mount Joy?
I would speculate that without more passing track, any added service would have to terminate at Unionville, and ML may not like the optics of a service where half the ridership has to worry about whether they need to take a bus link to carry on from there. The hourly train to Mount Joy is at least a consistent pattern.

There may also be a need to wait until Barrie can handle half-hourly service so things are equalised all round, and run throughs are more feasible

- Paul

It doubles the bidirectional capacity as far as Unionville. That's pretty significant. And depending on the timing, it can allow some increased service to Mt Joy as I demonstrated above

 

[Frankietls]

I suspect service increases are basically on hold until ONExpress takes over, then it'll come (relatively) quickly afterwards.

According to these insiders on Reddit, ONxpress Operations Inc. (OOI) contract has been terminated effective yesterday May 15, and ONxpress is doing mass layoffs. Alstom contract is renewed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gotransit/comments/1ko8ai4/onxpress_mass_layoffs

ONxpress Mass Layoffs
byu/toastmfg ingotransit

 

[bearcat]

According to these insiders on Reddit, ONxpress Operations Inc. (OOI) contract has been terminated effective yesterday May 15, and ONxpress is doing mass layoffs. Alstom contract is renewed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gotransit/comments/1ko8ai4/onxpress_mass_layoffs

With rather discouraging information about the extent of electrification and the service levels for GO in the electrification thread and now this, the immediate future doesn't sound bright for GO.

 

[Bojaxs]

With rather discouraging information about the extent of electrification and the service levels for GO in the electrification thread, the future doesn't sound bright for GO.

I think what we're witnessing is Metrolinx taking a "back to basics" approach and focusing on getting AD2W service on all the lines before committing to electrification. If that's the case, then the renewing/ extending of the contract with Alstom was more than adequate to achieving this goal, and OOI was no longer necessary.

 

[bearcat]

I think what were witnessing is Metrolinx taking a "back to basics" approach and focusing on getting AD2W service on all the lines before committing to electrification. If that's the case, then the renewing/ extending of the contract with Alstom is more than adequate to achieve this goal, and OOI was no longer necessary.

I just want 15 minutes minimum all day service within the GTA. Hopefully that could be their target.

 

[smallspy]

With rather discouraging information about the extent of electrification and the service levels for GO in the electrification thread and now this, the immediate future doesn't sound bright for GO.

Not necessarily.

The Operations & Maintenance contract has been voided, sure. But it had already been pushed back by 9 months, so it was pretty obvious that they were already in trouble.

But the Design & Construction part of the contract - which OnXpress has been working on for some time already - is still valid and in force. And they have been given a plan to work towards regarding track geometry and layouts to allow for electrification and enhanced service. They aren't going anywhere just yet.

Dan

 

[crs1026]

I think what we're witnessing is Metrolinx taking a "back to basics" approach and focusing on getting AD2W service on all the lines before committing to electrification. If that's the case, then the renewing/ extending of the contract with Alstom is more than adequate to achieving this goal, and OOI was no longer necessary.

Until we hear more (and I'm not optimistic that we will) I am keeping an open mind as to who is at fault here.

The ONxpress contract was predicated on ML delivering a certain level of preparation in terms of right of way preparation, civil works, etc.

With so many things being delayed or not completed, one wonders why ONxpress would accept the handover. It may be ML who is in breach of the contract.

One also wonders how many times the service plan has been changed (from the ML end).

And, while DoFo seems to have abundant funds for his vanity projects, one imagines that QP is actually doing a lot of cost cutting.... and the ONxpress contract may simply have become an expense that Ontario no longer is able or willing to support.

The recent budget is all about highways, highways, highways. I read a lot into that.... especially since GO projects take longer to deliver than an electoral cycle permits. The Cons may be cutting their losses and seeing little up side to delivering on transit.

I also wonder how much the termination of the contract may cost Ontario in penalties, let alone the now sunk cost of the co-development phase.

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

I think what we're witnessing is Metrolinx taking a "back to basics" approach and focusing on getting AD2W service on all the lines before committing to electrification. If that's the case, then the renewing/ extending of the contract with Alstom is more than adequate to achieving this goal, and OOI was no longer necessary.

I guess we'll have to wait until the inevitable law-suit to find out.

Gee, they didn't mention that in the budget.

 

[Northern Light]

Until we hear more (and I'm not optimistic that we will) I am keeping an open mind as to who is at fault here.

The ONxpress contract was predicated on ML delivering a certain level of preparation in terms of right of way preparation, civil works, etc.

With so many things being delayed or not completed, one wonders why ONxpress would accept the handover. It may be ML who is in breach of the contract.

One also wonders how many times the service plan has been changed (from the ML end).

And, while DoFo seems to have abundant funds for his vanity projects, one imagines that QP is actually doing a lot of cost cutting.... and the ONxpress contract may simply have become an expense that Ontario no longer is able or willing to support.

The recent budget is all about highways, highways, highways. I read a lot into that.... especially since GO projects take longer to deliver than an electoral cycle permits. The Cons may be cutting their losses and seeing little up side to delivering on transit.

I also wonder how much the termination of the contract may cost Ontario in penalties, let alone the now sunk cost of the co-development phase.

- Paul

That's an awful lot of conjecture Paul.

***

Also, a careful parsing of the highway projects will show scant progress being funded that will be meaningful to anyone.

 

[Frankietls]

Not necessarily.

The Operations & Maintenance contract has been voided, sure. But it had already been pushed back by 9 months, so it was pretty obvious that they were already in trouble.

But the Design & Construction part of the contract - which OnXpress has been working on for some time already - is still valid and in force. And they have been given a plan to work towards regarding track geometry and layouts to allow for electrification and enhanced service. They aren't going anywhere just yet.

Dan

Does that mean the end of Deutsche Bahn involvement in GO Expansion ?