GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[bpbpbpbp]

I'm surprised that they are cancelling the Bowmanville extension (or at least deferring again it far, far into the future - GO 3.0 maybe?)

I don't think that the Bowmanville extension is off the books right now. The image produced by the PC party is probably mostly just an election thing, as @Willybru21 said in the Midtown thread.

There's been tons of studies, collaboration with CPKC and work already done to prepare for a Bowmanville extension, and I don't think the government would entirely just abandon it.

 

[WB62]

I'm surprised that they are cancelling the Bowmanville extension (or at least deferring again it far, far into the future - GO 3.0 maybe?)

Please don’t take the map at face value, there are multiple errors present in it. Here are some of the ones I’ve noticed:

No Bowmanville Extension
No King-Liberty GO
No St. Clair-Old Weston GO
Etobicoke North GO and Woodbine GO both listed
No Park Lawn GO
No Finch-Kennedy GO
No Trafalgar-Milton GO
UP Express omitted

Lakeview GO is present, so there’s that I guess

 

[ARG1]

Disagree.



The developments well to the east of Yonge shouldn't be permitted at all.

The bus terminal should not be relocated as proposed.

The development should be concentrated along Yonge, and immediately adjacent, contiguous lands.

As proposed:

1) The communities will not be built as proposed. They're absurd, so using them as a justification for an expensive re-route makes no sense.

2) The communities represent bad design, and as conceptualized will promote driving, not walking. The Yonge extension here will only be useful as a downtown commuter line, rather than a go everwhere you might might to go line, which it would better achieve under Yonge.

****

Last note. The Line isn't under construction and can't go ahead yet.....there's nowhere to store the trains..... no MSF has been sited or funded by the province for this extension to date.

Too bad about routing the the line beside CN Tracks,where there might have been storage space, along with badly sited development lands to the east.

The MZO should have rezoned the land rail storage.

You say all this, yet you also seemed to have not mentioned what your preferred alternative will be.

Markham Gateway is mostly abandoned Brownbelt that's begging to be redeveloped into something. Areas like Oneida already have condos that are open and built, ready to see walk on passengers - not to mention the numerous parking lots in the area all conveniently flanking the railway corridor begging for redevelopment.

Yonge Street doesn't have a direct connection to Highway 7, which makes interfacing with Highway 7 busses difficult. That's the benefit of the new Bus Terminal location - it is so much faster and more convenient for Highway 7 and viva busses to access, whilst its barely much of an increase for Yonge busses if at all (especially when you consider that most busses will be terminating there due to the subway - particularly Viva Blue). If anything, the Yonge Street alignment was more of an alignment that solely favoured subway commutes rather than any other modes. Even the old plan for the 407 Transitway had the line awkwardly vere to the side to serve RHC. This is before mentioning that I doubt that a tunneled or elevated extension along Yonge towards Major Mac will be happening any time soon like you seem to be implying.

As for train storage, didn't they already announce that they'll be storing it in a makeshift storage area around 16th Avenue? I thought the question of train storage has long been settled.

 

[generalcanada]

There, fixed that for you.

Crosstown: Not open, years late.

Finch: Not open, late.

Hurontario: 2 years behind schedule.

GO 1.O, late, not delivered. LSE 15M and express service was to be restored more than a year ago.......

Ontario Line: Inferior design choice that have severely hobbled east end GO service, are a future hindrence to GO/VIA expansion and HSR and deliver less capacity, years behind the original delivery schedule.

Yonge North - Inferior route, at increased, rather than decreased cost to service developers/donors to party. No decision on Cummer Station, which would peform better than most other stations set to be built.

****

Meanwhile, like the Liberals before, his propensity for P3s and the bungling of Infrastructure Ontario has dramatically inflated costs, delaying other much needed projects.

****

No credit for DoFo on the transit file.

Yes sure the delays on the current projects like finch, crosstown and hurontario isnt good thats not what i said though.

His desire to push through projects that people dont immediately want is what im talking about. The outcry from riverside residents when dealing with the ontario line was enough to make the news multiple times. Was it a good plan strategically over the next 50 years? we will see. but the project is going ahead like it or not

 

[Sauga89]

Please don’t take the map at face value, there are multiple errors present in it. Here are some of the ones I’ve noticed:

No Bowmanville Extension
No King-Liberty GO
No St. Clair-Old Weston GO
Etobicoke North GO and Woodbine GO both listed
No Park Lawn GO
No Finch-Kennedy GO
No Trafalgar-Milton GO
UP Express omitted

Lakeview GO is present, so there’s that I guess

There are other things I'm not seeing on this map, which I'd hoped would be part of any 407 freight bypass package.
No Orangeville Line
No Seaton Line
No indication of Lakeshore West trains switching onto the Midtown Line at Long Branch
No GO train line along the 407 as part of the freight bypass (perhaps there isn't room for GO tracks?)

 

[Northern Light]

You say all this, yet you also seemed to have not mentioned what your preferred alternative will be.

Yes i did. The subway follows Yonge, period.

Personally, I wouldn't go past Steeles currently, until York Region demonstrates it is serious about funding a proper transit system. A subway supported by a network of every 30 to 60 minutes buses is not my idea a remotely intelligent plan or good use of money.

If going north of Steeles, I think it makes more sense to stop at Major Mack.

Markham Gateway is mostly abandoned Brownbelt that's begging to be redeveloped into something. Areas like Oneida already have condos that are open and built, ready to see walk on passengers - not to mention the numerous parking lots in the area all conveniently flanking the railway corridor begging for redevelopment.

The land next to Yonge makes sense for residential, further east is better as employment, when next to a main freight line.

Yonge Street doesn't have a direct connection to Highway 7, which makes interfacing with Highway 7 busses difficult. That's the benefit of the new Bus Terminal location - it is so much faster and more convenient for Highway 7 and viva busses to access,.....

Best to correct the mistake you note, and return highway......errr Avenue 7 to grade.

This would require a re-alignment, of course.

Remove the existing grade-separated 7 where its redundant and create a greenbelts of parkland, a multi-use path, and development at key nodes. Problem with buses solved.

I thought the question of train storage has long been settled.

Nope.

There may be interim measures, but they aren't sufficient.

 

[ericmacm]

I think whoever made this graphic didn't think it through, or simply forgot. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a last minute rush job that they through together yesterday. I personally haven't heard anything regarding delaying Bowmanville - quite the opposite in fact.

Yeah, this strikes me as a graphic that some staffer was trying to pump out as fast as possible and forgot to include some items.

I am glad to see this as part of the next crop of transit projects that we can expect to see in the pipeline. I doubt any of it will come to fruition any time soon (other posters have commented about Metrolinx having their hands full with all of the current RT/GO projects under construction, many of which are behind schedule), but getting the ball rolling on the planning/design will ensure that there are more things in the pipeline that can be built once the current group of projects start to finally wrap up. Hopefully the older studies for some of these corridors can be reused or built upon to save time.

 

[APTA-2048]

GO 1.O, late, not delivered. LSE 15M and express service was to be restored more than a year ago.......

Still not over having worse service on my line than what I had in 2018.

 

[nfitz]

I think whoever made this graphic didn't think it through, or simply forgot. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a last minute rush job that they through together yesterday. I personally haven't heard anything regarding delaying Bowmanville - quite the opposite in fact.

Maybe - if you are correct, I'm sure they'll issue a replacement shortly.

 

[WB62]

Here’s a map I made on the proposed Bolton Line:

I’ll make a map on the Midtown Line and proposed reroute of the Richmond Hill Line later.

 

[ARG1]

Yes i did. The subway follows Yonge, period.

To serve the SFHs that will be far more difficult and take a lot longer to redevelop?

Personally, I wouldn't go past Steeles currently, until York Region demonstrates it is serious about funding a proper transit system. A subway supported by a network of every 30 to 60 minutes buses is not my idea a remotely intelligent plan or good use of money.

The reason why this subway is being built in the first place is because as it stands, Viva Blue (regular + the short turn B) alone runs every 6 minutes (not to mention all of the other busses that follow Yonge south of Highway 7), and with increasing concentration of development along the corridor (plus my anecdotal experience of the busses being extremely full as is) it really won't be long before the headways are reduced even further. I don't think it can be overstated how much development is going around the Viva routes, and you can cry about them not getting a lot in terms of headways (and yes that is a problem), but with how much development and demand there will be, it really won't take much before the busses are hit by a motherload. Its already happening with Viva Purple A struggling to meet the York U demand following the opening of the new campus, and YRT's struggle to meet that demand. With the constant upzoning across all of Highway 7 and even Centre Street, the need for high frequency busses is frankly inevitable.

If going north of Steeles, I think it makes more sense to stop at Major Mack.

I'm not 100% against this, but at the same time the amount of demand there is between RHC and Finch is significantly higher than between RHC and Major Mack. That extension will be a future problem that I honestly think would make more sense as just a line that parallels the Bala Sub, rather than a Yonge Street El or Subway.

The land next to Yonge makes sense for residential, further east is better as employment, when next to a main freight line.

Highlighting its status as a freight line implies that you believe that this employment should be industrial (maybe not, but that's the main value of a freight line) - a weird thing to put next to dense subway oriented TOD. This is before I mention the fact that the 407 itself is a current and even future corridor for cross regional transit, and let's say there's a reason why the MTO values the area as a major regional transit hub, one where its absolutely worth to densify as much as possible.

Best to correct the mistake you note, and return highway......errr Avenue 7 to grade.

This would require a re-alignment, of course.

View attachment 630007

Remove the existing grade-separated 7 where its redundant and create a greenbelts of parkland, a multi-use path, and development at key nodes. Problem with buses solved.

That will be a lot more difficult and expensive than you probably realize. The reason why its grade separated in the first place is due to its proximity to the 407 interchange. That would basically require rebuilding that entire interchange and 407 alignment from scratch - an expense that I think will be impossible to justify - especially when the interchange design is far from broken like many others in this region. Its not like the planners from the 90s decided to grade separate this section of Highway 7 because they were feeling silly.

 

[Northern Light]

To serve the SFHs that will be far more difficult and take a lot longer to redevelop?

The SFHs can be expropriated and removed in the stroke of a pen.

Mx has done just that a plethora of other sites.

The reason why this subway is being built in the first place is because as it stands, Viva Blue (regular + the short turn B) alone runs every 6 minutes (not to mention all of the other busses that follow Yonge south of Highway 7).....

I bus every 6 minutes is normative on a dozen routes or more in Toronto, it is not justification for a subway, that begins when you bus is every 2M

Bus capacity (non-artic) is 51.

A subway replacing that is 1,400 (really more like 1,000, but I digress)

How do you justify 20x (or more) the capacity, assuming the subway ran only every 6M?

If the subway ran at off-peak frequency in line w/current Line 1 standards (every 4M) ....you're looking at 30x the capacity or more....

That will be a lot more difficult and expensive than you probably realize.

Have you not yet realized I understand these issues really........ I mean really well? Just saying.

The reason why its grade separated in the first place is due to its proximity to the 407 interchange.

Uh, I know that.

That would basically require rebuilding that entire interchange and 407 alignment from scratch - an expense that I think will be impossible to justify - especially when the interchange design is far from broken like many others in this region. Its not like the planners from the 90s decided to grade separate this section of Highway 7 because they were feeling silly.

No, that's why I actually posted what should have been done in the first place, which is to re-align 'Avenue 7' so that it is further from the 407 in this section.

 

[Dan416]

The SFHs can be expropriated and removed in the stroke of a pen.

Mx has done just that a plethora of other sites.



I bus every 6 minutes is normative on a dozen routes or more in Toronto, it is not justification for a subway, that begins when you bus is every 2M

Bus capacity (non-artic) is 51.

A subway replacing that is 1,400 (really more like 1,000, but I digress)

How do you justify 20x (or more) the capacity, assuming the subway ran only every 6M?

If the subway ran at off-peak frequency in line w/current Line 1 standards (every 4M) ....you're looking at 30x the capacity or more....



Have you not yet realized I understand these issues really........ I mean really well? Just saying.



Uh, I know that.



No, that's why I actually posted what should have been done in the first place, which is to re-align 'Avenue 7' so that it is further from the 407 in this section.

Probably not the right place to ask this, but Highway 7 looks like it was cobbled together from various (well, 2) concessions. When Highway 7 was downloaded to York Region, why did it not revert to its former names like Highway 7 did in Brampton? In Brampton it's Queen Street and Bovaird Drive. So why isn't it back to 14th Ave/Centre St/Green Ln for the southern concession, and Langstaff for the one above it? I can see the concessions are a bit hacked to pieces though, so I'm guessing that's why?

 

[Northern Light]

Probably not the right place to ask this, but Highway 7 looks like it was cobbled together from various (well, 2) concessions. When Highway 7 was downloaded to York Region, why did it not revert to its former names like Highway 7 did in Brampton? In Brampton it's Queen Street and Bovaird Drive. So why isn't it back to 14th Ave/Centre St/Green Ln for the southern concession, and Langstaff for the one above it? I can see the concessions are a bit hacked to pieces though, so I'm guessing that's why?

Honestly, I don't know, I could probably find out......but I suspect others here have the requisite knowledge, so let's give space to the room before we assign me after-hours homework, LOL

 

[Dan416]

Honestly, I don't know, I could probably find out......but I suspect others here have the requisite knowledge, so let's give space to the room before we assign me after-hours homework, LOL

It wasn't homework for you specifically. Was just curious.