GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[afransen]

Do we have access to the Initial Business Case mentioned in this letter? I can't seem to find it.

We don't know the year those dollars are in. Perhaps it is a far future estimate, with a construction start after GO Expansion is largely complete?

Regarding land: I'd hope at that price it includes buying half the corridor from CP rather than a long-term lease.

Is something like an IBC subject to FOI request?

 

[Bojaxs]

Practically speaking, what might grade separation works in Streetsville actually look like? I’m counting four at-grade crossings: Mississauga Road, Thomas, Tannery, and Ontario St.

Trench the tracks along Streetsville. That way the track goes underneath all the at-grade crossings without constructing a tunnel. Re-design the Streetsville station to be similar to West Harbour in Hamilton.

 

[dowlingm]

Hold on!

6.2B; for a line with no tunnels, no elevated structure except for bridges over roads; arguably no new rolling stock required, and only a smidge of land acquisition at one or two pinch points.

You must be kidding me!

Seriously, I won't throw around an accusation of grift without evidence but I'll be damned if I can think of any other explanation. That estimate better include a tunnel to Square One!

There’s widening this elevated structure, for one thing

 

[sixrings]

Can I ask a next question. If the Milton line is separated does that open the conversation to a mid town line through Toronto.

 

[allengeorge]

The funding requested is eye-wateringly high.

That said, I’m glad the Ontario government is at the table (they absolutely have been amazing when it comes to putting $$$ on the line for transit capital expenditures).

I am curious if the federal government will respond however. There are now two big ticket items on their plate for which there’s Ontario funding: the TTC subway cars and now the Milton line. I’m betting they don’t pony up.

 

[sixrings]

The funding requested is eye-wateringly high.

That said, I’m glad the Ontario government is at the table (they absolutely have been amazing when it comes to putting $$$ on the line for transit capital expenditures).

I am curious if the federal government will respond however. There are now two big ticket items on their plate for which there’s Ontario funding: the TTC subway cars and now the Milton line. I’m betting they don’t pony up.

Im betting if Bonnie wins they pony up. If ford stays in there’s a new version of deferred spending.

 

[crs1026]

I’m confident that Ford’s sudden interest is the result of Bonnie becoming leader, leading to the prospect of the line being an election promise by the other side.
And if you are going to ask for money, why not ask for a lot. Especially if you think the other side is serious about building, so the spend becomes a fait accompli, and the impact on the taxpayer is no longer on your conscience.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

Can I ask a next question. If the Milton line is separated does that open the conversation to a mid town line through Toronto.

It helps, yes. But only if yet more money is brought. I don’t see both projects proceeding in parallel. So we are talking twenty years out.
And really, if we are building an express cross GTA line, maybe it needs to be further north to benefit more people in more places. I can see a mid town line on the CP corridor landing a ways down the priority list. It may not be the first cross town line to be built.

- Paul

 

[lenaitch]

It helps, yes. But only if yet more money is brought. I don’t see both projects proceeding in parallel. So we are talking twenty years out.
And really, if we are building an express cross GTA line, maybe it needs to be further north to benefit more people in more places. I can see a mid town line landing a ways down the priority list. It may not be the first cross town line to be built.

- Paul

I'm reminded that the 401 was built (or billed) as the Toronto Bypass.

 

[crs1026]

There’s widening this elevated structure, for one thing

Quite apart from the size and thus cost of a new Humber River bridge - and likely a two track bridge at that - I can see lots of grumbling and opposition from the Kingsway residents. Expect a very thorough and lengthy TPAP process partly because the Humber is a sensitive place for construction, but also because a district packed with powerful lawyers will be watching like a hawk.
Even building sound fencing thru that area will be controversial.
There is also the Mimico Creek, Etobicoke Creek, and Credit watersheds to consider.
Following on to the previous post about a midtown line - I can see influential residents catching on to the proposition that a freight bypass would allow Milton GO to be 2WAD without adding so much new track. Maybe that is what will let the genie out of the bottle.

- Paul

 

[innsertnamehere]

The Freight Bypass is more expensive than many realize, especially if you want to shift CP onto it too. CP will want a dedicated parallel corridor to CN all the way over to Agincourt, will need new freight yards, etc. Double-Tracking Milton is likely still substantially cheaper.

 

[Northern Light]

The Freight Bypass is more expensive than many realize, especially if you want to shift CP onto it too. CP will want a dedicated parallel corridor to CN all the way over to Agincourt, will need new freight yards, etc.

I will leave it to our rail experts to opine; but I will note that CN/CP already co-produce (share lines), in 2 significant areas in the country, in both cases running traffic unidirectionally down one line and up the other.

That suggests, that for the most part, a two-track corridor should work (one east, one west); there would obviously be a need for some additional track near major yards and such.

Also, what yard are you envisioning CP replacing? Leaside is gone, Obico is gone, not sure what's going on w/Lambton this week, LOL

Final thought, our experts here have suggested that CP may just move Toronto yard (Agincourt) entirely.

None of which is to suggest the Missing Link/Midtown by-pass would be cheap; nor do I have the requisite info to compare value for money vs quad-tracking Milton.

 

[crs1026]

The Freight Bypass is more expensive than many realize, especially if you want to shift CP onto it too. CP will want a dedicated parallel corridor to CN all the way over to Agincourt, will need new freight yards, etc. Double-Tracking Milton is likely still substantially cheaper.

Quite possibly. I don’t have a firm view either way… but it’s the question that one expects will be asked, as it was when GO wanted the Halton line….before multiple billions are committed.
I bet somebody asks for that analysis.
And maybe with Ottawa in the funding game, maybe it will be asked at a level that could actually examine alternatives (eg coproduction) at a policy level.

- Paul

 

[Bojaxs]

Global News is speculating that this is all political. Bonnie Crombie is potentially going to run as the Liberal candidate in the Milton by-election.
https://globalnews.ca/video/rd/4fca0128-c6d8-11ee-9eaf-0242ac110003/?jwsource=cl

 

[T3G]

All transit is political. They wouldn't supply a penny if they didn't think there was some benefit to themselves.