GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Northern Light]

why is GO subsidizing cheap recreational trips to Niagara? Increase pricing to bring crowding down and increase profitability. Perhaps a Niagara pass becomes $15 or something even just to drop demand a bit.

I assume the desire is to drive additional tourism, including overnights, by visitors both domestic and international, which, in turn will boost spending on hotel construction and attractions.

Should that assumption be correct; should that all be on GO? Probably not, but if you treat it as 'tourism promotion' spending rather than transportation spending, the uptake suggests a better yield
than some TV commercials would get; and its probably a lot more politically palatable and practical than directly subsidizing attractions/hotels.

 

[crs1026]

I have commented before that so much of our recreational infrastructure in Southern Ontario is auto-dependent and may become a more stranded asset should auto use become less accessible. This doesn’t imply an anti-auto mentality - simple population growth will fill the highways. If you think the Niagara GO train is overloaded, think what the 400 will look like on Sunday afternoon with another half million residents in Toronto.

Our entire network of conservation areas and hinterland cycling/walking trails currently requires auto use to access. Ditto for cottage country, Georgian Bay beaches, etc.

Linking the GTA to recreational areas outside the GTA by public transit is a necessary part of our overall densification. It probably does relate to affordability in that costs of using autos, not to mention shoreline in cottage country is a somewhat finite resource so as population grows, access to that resource will likely become even more exclusive and potentially wealth-dependent. Lack of wealth should not chain people to the city.

The Niagara train is really just the test case for that strategy. We should work from the strategy and apply lessons learned from Niagara - but Niagara is not the destination in itself. We need more of a network.

- Paul

 

[innsertnamehere]

I have commented before that so much of our recreational infrastructure in Southern Ontario is auto-dependent and may become a more stranded asset should auto use become more accessible. This doesn’t imply an anti-auto mentality - simple population growth will fill the highways. If you think the Niagara GO train is overloaded, think what the 400 will look like on Sunday afternoon with another half million residents in Toronto.

Our entire network of conservation areas and hinterland cycling/walking trails currently requires auto use to access. Ditto for cottage country, Georgian Bay beaches, etc.

Linking the GTA to recreational areas outside the GTA by public transit is a necessary part of our overall densification. It probably does relate to affordability in that costs of using autos, not to mention shoreline in cottage country is a somewhat finite resource so as population grows, access to that resource will likely become even more exclusive and potentially wealth-dependent. Lack of wealth should not chain people to the city.

The Niagara train is really just the test case for that strategy. We should work from the strategy and apply lessons learned from Niagara - but Niagara is not the destination in itself. We need more of a network.

- Paul

Oh I agree wholeheartedly - I've advocated on this board several times about returning trains to Collingwood and specifically timing Northlander trips to encourage use to access Cottage Country.

Niagara ultimately is extremely well built for public transit visits as it's dense and has a large variety of destinations relatively close to the station, so other recreational destinations will be more challenging to service, but there is definitely room to improve.

Generally, even in Europe, recreational areas are dominated by automotive access though _(though obviously much less so than here) - the returns on the types and variety of activities which can be serviced by transit will be limited, as will uptake overall. Doesn't mean we have to continue with our current model which is basically 0% transit modal share to these types of destinations though either.

 

[Undead]

Tough crowd, eh? We don't build transit, people complain. We do offer transit service, people still complain. I know it's a complicated issue, but this is starting to sound like why we can't have nice things.

 

[Bordercollie]

I have commented before that so much of our recreational infrastructure in Southern Ontario is auto-dependent and may become a more stranded asset should auto use become less accessible. This doesn’t imply an anti-auto mentality - simple population growth will fill the highways. If you think the Niagara GO train is overloaded, think what the 400 will look like on Sunday afternoon with another half million residents in Toronto.

Our entire network of conservation areas and hinterland cycling/walking trails currently requires auto use to access. Ditto for cottage country, Georgian Bay beaches, etc.

Linking the GTA to recreational areas outside the GTA by public transit is a necessary part of our overall densification. It probably does relate to affordability in that costs of using autos, not to mention shoreline in cottage country is a somewhat finite resource so as population grows, access to that resource will likely become even more exclusive and potentially wealth-dependent. Lack of wealth should not chain people to the city.

The Niagara train is really just the test case for that strategy. We should work from the strategy and apply lessons learned from Niagara - but Niagara is not the destination in itself. We need more of a network.

- Paul

Too bad they ripped out the CP tracks through Clifton Hill. They could have built a station right downtown.

If you took the CP line from Hamilton GO it will bring you to
6740 Fallsview Blvd, Niagara Falls, ON L2G 3W6

I don't know what the track conditions are to get there but this would allow you to have a station downtown.

Is the Niagara Falls LRT dead? It really needs to be along the Parkway between the butterfly conservatory and the Falls.

 

[Northern Light]

Too bad they ripped out the CP tracks through Clifton Hill. They could have built a station right downtown.

If you took the CP line from Hamilton GO it will bring you to
6740 Fallsview Blvd, Niagara Falls, ON L2G 3W6

I don't know what the track conditions are to get there but this would allow you to have a station downtown.

It is still feasible to build a station next to Fallsview Casino along the CP tracks; though the spur track is in poor condition and will require investment.

Going further would require demolition of at least a portion of, if not the entirely of Fallsview (no great loss); and you could reasonably get to Victoria Street and put a station there; but I think the business case would really limit one to the
Fallsview Station unless there was a compelling reason to demo the casino.

Is the Niagara Falls LRT dead? It really needs to be along the Parkway between the butterfly conservatory and the Falls.

Was there a serious proposal in the past?

Its been discussed at a high level, but I wasn't aware of it ever being particularly advanced in terms of planning.

I expect you will see an LRT at some point, but its likely more than a decade, and perhaps two from happening; It will also, most likely, follow Victoria in order to connect the GO Station to the Clifton Hill area.

 

[innsertnamehere]

the ROW still exists to extend Niagara Service from the CP corridor south to Fallsview / Clifton Hill as well, if desired.

 

[Garuda]

the ROW still exists to extend Niagara Service from the CP corridor south to Fallsview / Clifton Hill as well, if desired.

That route IMO should street car/tram that runs from the train station south along the right of way towards the park & rides.

 

[reaperexpress]

Tough crowd, eh? We don't build transit, people complain. We do offer transit service, people still complain. I know it's a complicated issue, but this is starting to sound like why we can't have nice things.

Nobody here has complained about the existence of the weekend Niagara GO train. We are only debating what to do about the fact that the current schedule and price structure (1 gigantic train in the morning; $10 round trip) is resulting in crowding on the train and on the connecting bus services at Niagara Falls station.

In no way does discussing the limitations of current service and fare structures prevent or even discourage new services from being introduced.

 

[crs1026]

In no way does discussing the limitations of current service and fare structures prevent or even discourage new services from being introduced.

Indeed. I think every poster to date has been in favour of more such services and on more routes.

What we have been discussing is that there are some very hard barriers to doing so, and whether the $10 fare is sensible given that we can't overcome these in short order. Pointing out the barriers, and the difficulties to overcoming them, is very different from opposing such improvements.

- Paul

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Honestly how is the Niagara service affecting the rest of the system. Most of the trainsets would be in the yard during this time (not being used on other lines). And financially, while there certainly is a cost to providing the service (assuming it is being run as a loss leader). We are talking about 4 to 6 months a year, or 42 days vs 365 days. I doubt there is a significant trade off going in providing Niagara Service.

Granted though I do also support deploying some of those stationary trainsets on other lines besides just LW and LE

 

[anb]

They aren't even hesitating no more. At least one thing about this detour is that it does help Brampton, Georgetown, Milton and Meadowvale riders get to the Niagara bound train more directly, but whether that's a good thing or not considering the climate of that service right now, remains to be seen.

 

[ShonTron]

They aren't even hesitating no more. At least one thing about this detour is that it does help Brampton, Georgetown, Milton and Meadowvale riders get to the Niagara bound train more directly, but whether that's a good thing or not considering the climate of that service right now, remains to be seen.


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This is because of the Indy with Lake Shore Blvd closed so it makes sense at least for this particular weekend.

 

[Allandale25]

^ It would be nice if they could add that context to explain why it's happening.

 

[JasonParis]

To a lot of people who don't understand the ownership of rail lines and such, this must all feel a bit nonsensical to be re-routed off of their corridor to catch a train on another corridor. "Why not just run a train on my corridor today" must be going through their minds. And it is hard to blame them.