News   Jul 12, 2024
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News   Jul 12, 2024
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News   Jul 12, 2024
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GO Transit Midtown Corridor

The reason the CP midtown, CN Richmond Hill line (north of Doncaster Diamond), and Kitchener Line west of Bramalea typically don't feature in RER plans (and probably a factor in there not being a Bolton Line yet) is that these lines are the lines most of the freight is running on. If CN abandoned the line north of Doncaster (shipping everything via Chicago perhaps), or CP bypassed Toronto to the north, then the RER plan would likely have two more lines on it.
Slowly, the industry along the midtown is moving out of the city. The stockyards (Keele & St. Clair & Dundas) used to be busy with rail delivering cattle for example, no more. Hazardous substances are already avoiding the midtown corridor, as their destinations are also moving out.
 
Slowly, the industry along the midtown is moving out of the city. The stockyards (Keele & St. Clair & Dundas) used to be busy with rail delivering cattle for example, no more. Hazardous substances are already avoiding the midtown corridor, as their destinations are also moving out.
It's not just the local customers -that is CP's only E-W mainline. All goods originating anywhere on one side of the city heading for the other side has no other alternative.
 
It's not just the local customers -that is CP's only E-W mainline. All goods originating anywhere on one side of the city heading for the other side has no other alternative.

I never realized it either, but it is. So, if this corridor is to be a viable GO corridor, or an RER corridor, there needs to be a lot of new rail infrastructure.
 
At one time, freight traffic went through downtown Toronto. They shifted to other lines around Toronto. Railways have used other company lines for the movement of freight (with compensation). Railways could lease, buy, or exchange their rail lines. They could even combine ownership, like they did with the downtown rail lines in cities like Toronto. Don't assume that the railway companies will never lease, buy, or exchange their properties. They have done it before. They did with Metrolinx as well, so could do the same with the other railway companies.

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From link.
 
The reason the CP midtown, CN Richmond Hill line (north of Doncaster Diamond), and Kitchener Line west of Bramalea typically don't feature in RER plans (and probably a factor in there not being a Bolton Line yet) is that these lines are the lines most of the freight is running on. If CN abandoned the line north of Doncaster (shipping everything via Chicago perhaps), or CP bypassed Toronto to the north, then the RER plan would likely have two more lines on it.
It's not just the local customers -that is CP's only E-W mainline. All goods originating anywhere on one side of the city heading for the other side has no other alternative.

I never realized it either, but it is. So, if this corridor is to be a viable GO corridor, or an RER corridor, there needs to be a lot of new rail infrastructure.

This is what the Missing Link would hope to resolve.
 
This is what the Missing Link would hope to resolve.
Fair point, but that wasn't the claim I was responding to.
Only need E-W for freight, if there is industry along that route. If not, they should bypass it using other lines, include other company raillines.
Then you get into the 'missing link' discussion and whether the CN York corridor or 407 property are suitable and viable.

Both CN and CP are publicly held, for-profit corporations. If one wants to use the property of the other, they are free to try and negotiate it. if the government wants to somehow force it, I suppose they can try; I doubt they would be successful unless a whole pile of tax dollars are involved. Don't expect the federal government to get back into freightline ownership. Maybe Metrolinx has a few billion lying around.
 
Only need E-W for freight, if there is industry along that route. If not, they should bypass it using other lines, include other company raillines.
To use one line for all freight traffic through Toronto is absurd. Freight traffic is going up. There would come a time were CN would need the space for their freight.

So, before the Midtown Corridor can be a success, there needs to be an alternative CP owned route.
 
To use one line for all freight traffic through Toronto is absurd. Freight traffic is going up. There would come a time were CN would need the space for their freight.

So, before the Midtown Corridor can be a success, there needs to be an alternative CP owned route.
Or shared route.
 
To use one line for all freight traffic through Toronto is absurd. Freight traffic is going up. There would come a time were CN would need the space for their freight.

So, before the Midtown Corridor can be a success, there needs to be an alternative CP owned route.
This could easily happen parallel to CN's corridor. If we're already building track and setting land aside, we may as well make it as redundant as possible so we don't have to do it again. If the bypass, along with room for CP throughout all of greater Toronto is considered, that will require minimum 2 tracks per carrier mostly paralleling the 407 or perhaps built alongside 413 while it's still greenfield. What we should be discussing is how many tracks in addition to add; freeing up the midtown corridor is convenient, but constructing an additional two tracks for GO, alongside the CN/CP mainline, may be worth the investment. I can't imagine the land acquisitions necessary for four additional tracks instead of two (6 total vs. 4) would be all that big a deal, considering we're already talking about potentially tens of billions of dollars. Give it a catchy name, the "Rail super way" of the Golden Horseshoe. You would be able to guarantee the freight companies that transit would never impede on their operations because we'd be putting in our own track right alongside CN & CP's. There would be no need to acquire theirs in the future, and we'd have not one, but TWO heavy rail east-west lines (excluding the Lakeshore, lines 2/5/4 etc). Again, a ridiculously costly venture, but if the bypass is being considered we need to think big and guarantee freight a permanent E/W route while also extracting as much value for transit as we can. The midtown corridor would be just a part of the bypass' benefits.
 
This could easily happen parallel to CN's corridor. If we're already building track and setting land aside, we may as well make it as redundant as possible so we don't have to do it again. If the bypass, along with room for CP throughout all of greater Toronto is considered, that will require minimum 2 tracks per carrier mostly paralleling the 407 or perhaps built alongside 413 while it's still greenfield. What we should be discussing is how many tracks in addition to add; freeing up the midtown corridor is convenient, but constructing an additional two tracks for GO, alongside the CN/CP mainline, may be worth the investment. I can't imagine the land acquisitions necessary for four additional tracks instead of two (6 total vs. 4) would be all that big a deal, considering we're already talking about potentially tens of billions of dollars. Give it a catchy name, the "Rail super way" of the Golden Horseshoe. You would be able to guarantee the freight companies that transit would never impede on their operations because we'd be putting in our own track right alongside CN & CP's. There would be no need to acquire theirs in the future, and we'd have not one, but TWO heavy rail east-west lines (excluding the Lakeshore, lines 2/5/4 etc). Again, a ridiculously costly venture, but if the bypass is being considered we need to think big and guarantee freight a permanent E/W route while also extracting as much value for transit as we can. The midtown corridor would be just a part of the bypass' benefits.
I'm not sure what you are suggesting. On problem with rail along a highway corridor, particularly in the terrain proposed for 413, is that the curves and grades are different. It may be more feasible with 407 but I don't really know. Any proposal to move CN further north takes them further from their yards. Same with CP but there seems to be some talk about moving away from Agincourt anyway. In addition, running freight including dangerous goods through the moraine would face stiff opposition.

If the proposal is to have six tracks in the CP North Toronto corridor, I'm not sure, but don't know, whether the ROW is wide enough. If land acquisition is required, it would be horrendously costly and disruptive. Also, the amount of traffic would be significant, and it still doesn't satisfy concerns of dangerous goods through the city; actually it exacerbates them.

It still comes back to ownership. The carriers have to agree to joint ownership, or the province becomes the owner; with all that goes with that. I'm not sure either carrier would be satisfied with a running rights arrangement.
 

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