Mr Finish Line
Active Member
I just checked and ML is even planning for a double stacked height through parts of LSE, USRC, LSW, Barrie, and Kitchener. I guess CN and CP just don't want poles to be built on their property.
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GO Transit Electrification | Metrolinx
- Thread starter innsertnamehere
- Start date
Mrgeosim
New Member
I wonder how politically lucrative it would be for the opposition parties of Ontario to include plans in their election platform for full electrification on the Kitchener line. I mean, for some of us here that might sway some votes, but does the general population care?
crs1026
Senior Member
I very much doubt they would do that. They will likely endorse the electrification of GO generally, but not try to fight on a hill that doesn’t serve any key need in the near term.
Just getting to hourly 2WAD to Kitchener with all trains running express east of Pearson/Bramalea is a more important priority, and it can be easily done with diesel. I don’t see wires as mission-critical to that milestone, even if it’s desirable for the further phases of expansion.
The case for electrifying GO overall is very strong, but the order in which it is done has many acceptable options. I don’t see anyone pushing an option that creates resistance in places (ie Guelph) and can’t offer a rationale for urgency.
- Paul
Agreed completely.
In the ultimate (or even mid-future) service plan, most of the trains serving the outlying areas are going to run express or semi-express once they reach the "metro" GTHA. Operationally, one of the main benefits from electrification is the ability to run rolling stock that accelerates faster, meaning that GO can add infill stations on the urban sections of their lines, leading to a more metro-like operation instead of a commuter rail operation. If the express trains are bypassing those stations anyway, then acceleration isn't an advantage.
It's more advantageous for Metrolinx to spend the money they would have spent on electrifying the outer portions of the Kitchener line (and the Barrie line, for that matter) on track upgrades instead. That would permit higher speed and more frequent diesel service, which is really what those lines need.
turini2
Active Member
Short sightedness from CN/CP - given the way the world is moving. I suspect Metrolinx will go for a combination of bi-mode locomotives and EMUs - allowing them to use their existing cars on un-electrified routes while still gaining some time benefit from electrification.
(Personally, I think this is something the federal government should be pushing for - along with the US - electrification of major rail corridors across the country. Bi-mode and tri-mode locos now offer a solution to the issue of electrifying branch/diversion lines and large yards.)
(Personally, I think this is something the federal government should be pushing for - along with the US - electrification of major rail corridors across the country. Bi-mode and tri-mode locos now offer a solution to the issue of electrifying branch/diversion lines and large yards.)
robmausser
Senior Member
Not a suspicion, Metrolinx has stated that they will use a mixed fleet. However currently Metrolinx is planning to use a mix of EMU's, 100% Diesels (existing locos) and electric locos. No word on bi mode.
I suspect its because while Barrie and Stouffville will use electric locos and bilevel cars for the outer portion of the network, they don't think its worth buying a dual mode loco set just for the kitchener line, when there are plenty of good diesel engines at their disposal.
CP and CN are going all in on hydrogen technology, so I think they are trying to skip having to install catenary on their massive rail system. I agree with them it would be a huge undertaking.
Welcome to CPKC Home Page – English. We go places no one else can go
CPKC is the first and only single-line rail network connecting a continent - Canada, the United States and Mexico.
Canadian Pacific’s hydrogen fuel cell locomotive to debut before year’s end - Trains
NEW YORK – Canadian Pacific’s first hydrogen fuel cell locomotive, a converted SD40-2F dubbed H2 0EL for “hydrogen zero-emissions locomotive,” will roll under its own power by the end of the year and then enter test service next year, CEO Keith Creel says. CP’s homebuilt locomotive test bed...
www.trains.com
Coolstar
Senior Member
Siemens is out. EMUs/Electric locomotives will come from Hitachi (EnTransit) or Alstom (Onxpress)
cplchanb
Senior Member
But isn't the installation and operation of the centenary a ML scope? Isn't this just a matter of whether CN/CP will grow up to late 20th century, stop being a dick and allow for the infrastructure to pass through their track? Seriously if they're being so unyielding why can't we just just build parallel tracks ourselves. They can keep whatever they want. In fact it might be cheaper in the long run since we won't have to pay for their catering wishlist itemsNot a suspicion, Metrolinx has stated that they will use a mixed fleet. However currently Metrolinx is planning to use a mix of EMU's, 100% Diesels (existing locos) and electric locos. No word on bi mode.
I suspect its because while Barrie and Stouffville will use electric locos and bilevel cars for the outer portion of the network, they don't think its worth buying a dual mode loco set just for the kitchener line, when there are plenty of good diesel engines at their disposal.
CP and CN are going all in on hydrogen technology, so I think they are trying to skip having to install catenary on their massive rail system. I agree with them it would be a huge undertaking.
Welcome to CPKC Home Page – English. We go places no one else can go
CPKC is the first and only single-line rail network connecting a continent - Canada, the United States and Mexico.www.cpr.ca
Canadian Pacific’s hydrogen fuel cell locomotive to debut before year’s end - Trains
NEW YORK – Canadian Pacific’s first hydrogen fuel cell locomotive, a converted SD40-2F dubbed H2 0EL for “hydrogen zero-emissions locomotive,” will roll under its own power by the end of the year and then enter test service next year, CEO Keith Creel says. CP’s homebuilt locomotive test bed...
crs1026
Senior Member
I assume you have been following the discussion so I won’t recycle from the many earlier posts.
The questions you might want to research from past discussions that would help you see the reasoning behind the CN/CP position would be
- what’s in it for their shareholders ? Impact on earnings per share?
- does this make their operation easier or harder, riskier or less risky?
- is it in their interests to share their corridor’s width with ML?
There is plenty at stake for them and (while we may not like or agree with them) we can’t assume their position is irrational or indifference or spite.
The scope of their trials is far, far less than “all in”. They are very limited (but useful) tests, nothing more. I would say they are at a point which is similar to sitting in the sedan at the Car Show…. could lead to a visit at a dealer for a test drive, but even that is a hypothetical as yet, and nobody is close to asking for the numbers.
- Paul
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cplchanb
Senior Member
when its about shares then the short answer is that whatever theyre going to do will need to impact them positively first. basically theyre decisions will always be selfish unless theres no other choice.
Considering the grand scheme, this guelph stretch is pennies to them. They have the entire north america to worry about. Hell they just spent billions just to merge with KSC.
As was demonstrated in the earlier posts, if its double stacking that is the concern,
they can make it go over that. Its really just a simple case of money and whether they want to invest in it or just sit put. As we have seen in almost all North American rail, they just want to sit put with their diesels and
legacy infrastructure and would rather nickel and dime to keep things bare minimum operational. Then again, isnt that the operational models for most large corporations?
The real solution in this is if there is a federal mandate to allow for the corridors that have been identified as passenger priority to be just that. Of though since the govt is in bed with these corps to being with,
they wont rattle any feathers. At most they will promise goodies during elections as we saw for HFR and then drag on to the next cycle.
robmausser
Senior Member
Im guessing Alstom will be the Coradia family,
Alstom Coradia - Wikipedia
but what about Hitachi? I am not familiar with their EMU's
Coolstar
Senior Member
This is Hitachi's product. The Caravaggio.Im guessing Alstom will be the Coradia family,
Alstom Coradia - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
but what about Hitachi? I am not familiar with their EMU's
cplchanb
Senior Member
https://www.hitachirail.com/products-and-solutions/rolling-stock/commuter/
I'm hoping for something innovative like the Laview but I'm expecting something typical to NA boredom trends. As long as it's not as ugly as a Metra car
On a related note, since the emu lines is completely owned and used by ML only, will they be able to bypass FRA like the new flirts for the o train?
Coolstar
Senior Member
No need now that the FRA allows Euro-style trains.
U.S. Finally Legalizes Modern, European-Style Train Cars
Finally, U.S. trains will no longer have be be designed like “high-velocity bank vaults” thanks to long-awaited changes in federal regulations.
usa.streetsblog.org