Undead
Senior Member
Track ownership.
Why is there a 20 minute disparity between peak and off peak Allandale-Union trips? Does customer boarding take up that much time over the entire line?
From the 2018 FBC:
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GO Transit Electrification | Metrolinx
- Thread starter innsertnamehere
- Start date
Why is there a 20 minute disparity between peak and off peak Allandale-Union trips? Does customer boarding take up that much time over the entire line?
From the 2018 FBC:
ARG1
Senior Member
The answer is unfortunately, who knows.
While I do often use these times as a reference, there are a lot of instances in this document where the times just make no sense and are clearly a result of the team overlooking some details or the person making these diagrams making mistakes. Like, there is no reason for travel times between Barrie South and Bradford to increase by 10 minutes post electrification.
A similar weird spot also exists on the LSE diagram where for the pre-expansion AM Peak it uses time from Oshawa assuming the express service (which is why time to Union from Pickering is 29 mins, meanwhile its 30 mins from Rouge Hill), however it doesn't do that for post GO-Expansion despite claiming that the same service will still be available.
Not quite. On LSW its past Burlington.
On Kitchener, they actually own the track past Georgetown all the way to Kitchener - and as such they are actually studying electrification for that corridor. What they do not own is the segment between Georgetown and Bramalea: That's owned by CN.
Here's a diagram showcasing all of this.
cplchanb
Senior Member
can they build parallel track for that section to give to cn in order to complete the line? itll be a tremendous wasted opportunity if that is holding it back. same for the RH line from langstaff up and to hamilton station.The answer is unfortunately, who knows.
While I do often use these times as a reference, there are a lot of instances in this document where the times just make no sense and are clearly a result of the team overlooking some details or the person making these diagrams making mistakes. Like, there is no reason for travel times between Barrie South and Bradford to increase by 10 minutes post electrification.
A similar weird spot also exists on the LSE diagram where for the pre-expansion AM Peak it uses time from Oshawa assuming the express service (which is why time to Union from Pickering is 29 mins, meanwhile its 30 mins from Rouge Hill), however it doesn't do that for post GO-Expansion despite claiming that the same service will still be available.
Not quite. On LSW its past Burlington.
On Kitchener, they actually own the track past Georgetown all the way to Kitchener - and as such they are actually studying electrification for that corridor. What they do not own is the segment between Georgetown and Bramalea: That's owned by CN.
Here's a diagram showcasing all of this.
crs1026
Superstar
Even crossing over the CN line at grade at Doncaster is likely problemmatic for CN.
With the north end of R Hill, and the other lines also - be careful what you ask for. Shared use of multiple tracks using diesel could become exclusive use of fewer electrified tracks. For now, whatever can be accomplished with one electrified track in Halton (assuming a flyover at Silver, and construction of the third track in Brampton and at the Credit River) and Bayview (where a third track already exists, but a flyover is needed to separate Niagara freight from crossing the track with wires at grade) and some use of diesels filling in will allow more service sooner. I do expect the added electrified track may emerge in another decade.
- Paul
superelevation
Active Member
To be fair Metrolinx spending a billion on something fairly minor is hardly unheard of
ssiguy2
Senior Member
The longer ML puts off making a decision in terms of tenders, the shorter amount of time they have to build the necessary electric infrastructure. By the time the tender is announced and construction begins, it will be well into 2023 leaving them only 3 short years to electrify 250km of track. If they have to extend that deadline to get the entire RER system up and running on time, I think it should be the Barrie Line north of Aurora that bits the bullet. It should be electrified but getting the core RER area serviced must be their first priority.
Of course ML may indeed want to extend the deadline as far into the future as humanely possible and riders be damned because it allows the agency to delay any decision on the key issue that they have been avoiding like the plague and yet dare not speak it's name............fare integration.
Of course ML may indeed want to extend the deadline as far into the future as humanely possible and riders be damned because it allows the agency to delay any decision on the key issue that they have been avoiding like the plague and yet dare not speak it's name............fare integration.
generalcanada
Senior Member
wait...you do know completion of electrification isnt being targeted until 2030+ right?
ARG1
Senior Member
News to me?
ARG1
Senior Member
That's almost certainly how its going to be done, peacemeal through phasing. Although its also important to note that raising wires is a very parallel process. Unless money becomes a huge concern all of a sudden, there's no reason why wires would be so difficult to install. These are electrical wires, not TBMs.
crs1026
Superstar
^The lead time is almost certainly governed by the procurement of switchgear and supply transformers, not by the wires themselves. Those are special-order, long lead time items that aren’t sitting in inventory somewhere.
And maybe alterations to existing bridges and such.
- Paul
And maybe alterations to existing bridges and such.
- Paul
generalcanada
Senior Member
It does sound like they dont even have timelines for the GO expansion. they want to create timelines in collaboration with the winning bidder
Allandale25
Senior Member
^ there's a seasonal timeline in the recent IO market update but I agree that it could change depending on what the winning bidder wants to do.
crs1026
Superstar
^Agenda for the ML December Board meeting is now on line, with nary a word about the status of the big procurement. I guess it’s IO’s baby to report on.
- Paul
- Paul
ssiguy2
Senior Member
How about fare integration on the December Board?
Let's be serious here, electrification is better for the environment, quieter, has cheaper operational costs, and faster de/acceleration with obviously EMUs being decidedly more so than electric locomotives but for the average Torontonian none of that means squat. Yes those are great benefits but the whole cost of this project {including electrification} is still nothing more than a make-work project for the majority of Torontonians because these are trains they still won't be able to board due to the very high fares and complete lack of fare integration. This is why despite being a massive project with an equally massive price tag, the whole thing is greeted by Toronto with a collection yawn and gets little media coverage.
A hospital may greatly expand it's size to serve it's growing community but if it's a private hospital that you have to pay to get into, it doesn't make a hoot of difference to all but the chosen few who have the pockets to take advantage of it.
Let's be serious here, electrification is better for the environment, quieter, has cheaper operational costs, and faster de/acceleration with obviously EMUs being decidedly more so than electric locomotives but for the average Torontonian none of that means squat. Yes those are great benefits but the whole cost of this project {including electrification} is still nothing more than a make-work project for the majority of Torontonians because these are trains they still won't be able to board due to the very high fares and complete lack of fare integration. This is why despite being a massive project with an equally massive price tag, the whole thing is greeted by Toronto with a collection yawn and gets little media coverage.
A hospital may greatly expand it's size to serve it's growing community but if it's a private hospital that you have to pay to get into, it doesn't make a hoot of difference to all but the chosen few who have the pockets to take advantage of it.
