GO Transit Electrification | Metrolinx

[allengeorge]

I think I’m still a little confused as to the state of the contract, to be honest. My understanding was that there was already work being done by proponents in advance of the ‘money rolling out the door’, which implies that they have some sense of who’s being chosen. But, that’s coming from random tweets, and I won’t know how IO procurement works under the hood.

Suffice it to say, all I really care about is that electrification starts and it ceases to be something we continually talk about as happening ‘down the road’. I’m extra nervy about this because of the government’s newfound love of highways, which I’m hoping doesn’t derail this project.

 

[crs1026]

I think I’m still a little confused as to the state of the contract, to be honest. My understanding was that there was already work being done by proponents in advance of the ‘money rolling out the door’, which implies that they have some sense of who’s being chosen. But, that’s coming from random tweets, and I won’t know how IO procurement works under the hood.

Suffice it to say, all I really care about is that electrification starts and it ceases to be something we continually talk about as happening ‘down the road’. I’m extra nervy about this because of the government’s newfound love of highways, which I’m hoping doesn’t derail this project.

The IO process appears to be basically rolling along as it generally does. In this case, it’s such a massive proposal with so many specifications and specifics that it is a ponderous and many-faceted contract. Kind of a supertanker of procurements - it’s moving, surely but slowly.

I see little likelihood that this process will grind to a halt or be cancelled. The complexity comes in having to clarify things for the bidders, and reconsider the specifics based on input from the bidders. It’s clear that ML likely took out items that the bidders felt would be hard to meet. And then review the final bids to find a winner, recognizing that each bid may contain suggestions or proposals that deviate from the final specs. And then maybe negotiate some fine details with the bidders. And only then, be in a position to declare a “winner”. And then negotiate more fine details.

And then there is the final trip through the Provincial approvals chain to get the money firmed up and get the approval to sign the deal…. with an election appearing on the horizon.

- Paul

 

[ssiguy2]

This whole debate is such a joke as is a clear example of Metrolinx incompetence.

Only in Toronto would the citizens be still wondering what kind of trains they will be boarding, what kind of electrification will be used, and what the fares will be on a $13 billion project 7 years after construction started.

This is one of the many problems by Metrolinx's ass-backwards decision of letting a private company make the proposals BEFORE the parameters are set out.

 

[Coolstar]

what kind of electrification will be used,

Its catenary... 25Kv.

 

[ssiguy2]

There is a difference between using standard EMU and electric locomotives. The locomotives don't have the de/acceleration levels that the EMUs do and if you look at some of the pics of electric trains running along corridors by Metrolinx they show 2 level locomotive trains.

 

[crs1026]

There is a difference between using standard EMU and electric locomotives. The locomotives don't have the de/acceleration levels that the EMUs do and if you look at some of the pics of electric trains running along corridors by Metrolinx they show 2 level locomotive trains.

And nobody.... except railfans..... cares what the equipment choice is. It's a spreadsheet exercise.

- Paul

 

[Amare]

There is a difference between using standard EMU and electric locomotives. The locomotives don't have the de/acceleration levels that the EMUs do and if you look at some of the pics of electric trains running along corridors by Metrolinx they show 2 level locomotive trains.

We've been through this time and time again, battery trains (non-catenary) are not being used for GO RER. The only chance we may ever see that happen is with the UPX spur, but even then nobody knows if Metrolinx will ever convert the line to electric.

 

[ssiguy2]

I don't seem to recall mentioning battery trains in my post.

Assuming they don't use battery, Metrolinx better get a move on. Not only do they have to put up 250km of poles by 2026 but also the transformer stations, order and get the trains, and train the staff to run them. At the glacial speed that Metrolinx has been building GO at, that is no small feat.

 

[ARG1]

There is a difference between using standard EMU and electric locomotives. The locomotives don't have the de/acceleration levels that the EMUs do and if you look at some of the pics of electric trains running along corridors by Metrolinx they show 2 level locomotive trains.

Here's your answer. Any questions?

 

[generalcanada]

Here's your answer. Any questions?

yes i do!
MX has said electric trains are 30% faster, i feel like they might have said this somewhere but i think this translates to like 20 minute time savings on oshawa to union right?

 

[ARG1]

yes i do!
MX has said electric trains are 30% faster, i feel like they might have said this somewhere but i think this translates to like 20 minute time savings on oshawa to union right?

Here's your answer. Any questions?


All of this information is from the 2018 GO Expansion Business case, so a lot of this is subject to change (in fact we had some changes confirmed such as the frequent all day service on the Barrie Line extending all the way to Bradford now). Here's the document: https://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/p..._BoardMtg_GO_Expansion_Full_Business_Case.PDF

The pages about travel time improvements start on Page 49 (Page 84 of the PDF)

 

[afransen]

Why continue to use locomotives instead of diesel hybrid EMUs? Just train capacity with the big cattle cars where trains per hour is limited?

 

[ARG1]

Why continue to use locomotives instead of diesel hybrid EMUs? Just train capacity with the big cattle cars where trains per hour is limited?

We have a ton of existing bi-level coaches that are nowhere near EOL - many of which are being built and delivered right now, and forcing early obsolescence for all of these coaches is fiscally unwise. As such the solution is: Use EMUs for the new frequent sections of lines, but keep the existing coaches and get new Electric Locomotives for supplementary Rush Hour Service. Then when the coaches are no longer needed, we can replace them with DMUs or EMUs.

 

[ssiguy2]

I've never understood why Barrie is to be completely electrified while LSW and Kitchener aren't going to be.

 

[generalcanada]

I've never understood why Barrie is to be completely electrified while LSW and Kitchener aren't going to be.

cause MX owns the entire barrie corridor while they rent track space from CN and CP for LSW past aldershot and Kitchener past georgetown.
Same reason why they arent electrifying the milton and richmond hill corridor they dont own that track.

if youre thinking "well then they should go buy it" the value of that track is in the billions