ssiguy2
Senior Member
Electrified trains aren't just about frequency but also about their zero emissions, faster travel times, much quieter trains both inside and out, and lower operational costs.
You forget there is an up front cost building power plant as well what fuel them. Water power plants are the cheapest cost to product power, but there are small number of palaces you can built them without causing water use down stream.Electrified trains aren't just about frequency but also about their zero emissions, faster travel times, much quieter trains both inside and out, and lower operational costs.
Re: Richmond Hill electrification from the other thread:
At some point, some form of electrification will have to occur, no? I'm thinking of eventual electrification of all forms of transport, having one diesel line left seems unlike. So maybe instead of the full catenary, battery trains?
Using 2 cars is a starting point, but until you run 8-12 cars trains you will not get a true picture what will or not work. The branch line is only a short section compare to rest of the system.Some VERY interesting developments out of NY on the battery front.
The Long Island Railroad {LIRR} is just announced that it will be working with Alstom to study how they could deploy battery powered trains on the non-electrified sections. They currently use diesel with 3rd rail closer to the city but train technology is exactly the same if the electric source was deployed by catenary. It will be an 8 month study to see how far the trains can travel on battery alone, the effects of weather, speed and efficiency, and how smoothly they transfer over from 3rd rail to battery. If successful, battery trains could be plying the rails by next year.
I agree that charging stations at each stop will be necessary but that is still much cheaper and faster to build than sticking up 250 km + of catenary wires.
Ask Detroit about why streetcars have to sit long after coming off a section where battery was use than plan for. Ask IndyGO why battery power bus route require more charging station than what was built for the line.With current batteries, they will need to still put up a good chunk of catenary but probably less than half the amount than just pure catenary saving a lot of time and money to say nothing of battery inherent advantages over just 100% catenary.
Sorry but what does OS stand for?Ask Detroit about why streetcars have to sit long after coming off a section where battery was use than plan for. Ask IndyGO why battery power bus route require more charging station than what was built for the line.
Places who thought no charging stations were require between the ends are placing a few charging stations between the ends.
I love to see EMU, but not the OS after my trip to Europe. The same can be said for TTC streetcar system. With the building of the ROW on St Clair and the Queens Quay, those street look a lot better with most of the OS gone other than the ROW compare to intersections and other streets that streetcars run on. Having battery power on TTC streetcars would allow TTC to get rid of the OS at intersection to give a clean street look as well along the street,
TTC next fleet will be battery and maybe TTC should look at having batteries in the next back of cars as test cars and to be use on a route or 2 where the OS can be remove starting with St Clair.
The down side of removing TTC OS is still have Hydro ugly overhead wire system on those streets.
End of the day, will save TTC a lot of money not having an OS as well the manpower to maintain it.
One only have to go to the east coast of the US to see the ugly OS.
There is no way that catenary will be replaced by battery powered trains - long term or short term. Why suffer the weight penalty of having to carry your energy around with you, when you can get it from overhead that exists? Batteries also need to be replaced as the capacity reduces - not helpful given trains have around 30/40 years of life expectancy these days!Battery trains are coming along much faster than thought even than just 5 years ago. The rate of battery technology advancements is truly staggering and this will grow exponentially.
We will find that in 10 short years batteries will be cheaper, much lighter, much smaller, recharge much faster, and have much longer life than what we can even dream of today. This has been given an even bigger shot in the arm now than Biden {thank God} is at the helm.
In 20 years we will find that diesel trains {including freight} will be nearly gone from the landscape and it will not be catenary that takes it's place but rather battery and hydrogen very much depending upon the type of service those trains provide. Battery will dominate the suburban/commuter systems and hydrogen the more long-distance and freight ones.
It also will not be too far into the future that we see the eventual death of catenary trains themselves. They will not be shut down en masse as there is no need but rather gradually phased out. When the wires need replacing or new trains are required they will go battery due to it's higher flexibility, lower maintenance costs, not being weather effected, and probably a gradual decline of manufacturers. The same will happen with the streetcars as well.
TTC next fleet will be battery and maybe TTC should look at having batteries in the next back of cars as test cars and to be use on a route or 2 where the OS can be remove starting with St Clair.