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The Urban Jungle
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General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)

andrewpmk said:
Here's the Toronto Public Health report from a year ago.

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2015/hl/bgrd/backgroundfile-81601.pdf

"On average, there were 2074 pedestrians and 1097 cyclists who were injured or died as a result of a collision with a motor vehicle per year in Toronto between 2008 and 2012."

The report does not state what the accident rates per km are for pedestrians and bikes, but since the number of pedestrians is far greater than the number of cyclists, I think we can easily conclude that bicycling is more dangerous even though there are more pedestrian accidents than bike accidents. Looking at the census and seeing what % ride bikes to work versus driving, walking and TTC is a good indicator.

I have a hard time believing that bicycling is a safe method of transportation. Also I am tired of seeing bikes ride on the sidewalk and narrowly avoiding hitting me while I am walking and I am tired of seeing bicyclists go through red lights and stop signs. I realize that there are lot of bad drivers but bicyclists seem to break road rules far more than other road users (particularly biking on the sidewalk). I am mostly a TTC user and pedestrian and don't own a car (though I do use car sharing occasionally).
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The quote from this study seems to suggest that motor vehicles are the cause of the injuries and deaths, no? Gasp! So I guess they should be completely banned, to keep us safe.

Too many cyclists on the sidewalk? How about a protected bike lane? That will definitely increase the number of cyclists who are comfortable enough to ride on the road. In fact, if we put a protected bike lane on every major street, presto, cyclists will have no valid reason to ride on the sidewalks there.

Not that many cyclists in Toronto you say? How about we take the percentage of people cycling (10% in the area of this pilot, according to the studies mentioned) and we only allot that same percentage of the paved surfaces (roads, parking lots, alleys, etc.) for that group in that area? So 10% of the surface area for cyclists in the west downtown. Sounds great eh? Should be enough room for protected cycle lanes on every major thoroughfare, bike parking corrals, etc.
 
I must say that I'm heartened by the resounding yes vote for the Bloor Street pilot. I wasn't expecting it to be so decisive, and yes, I know it's only for the pilot, but still.

After many years of activism arguing for better rights for various groups, I have grown very tired of hearing the same arguments over and over. It's always the same impulse, to deny a group of people that is in the minority their basic rights and needs based on the same arguments.

They are only a small group, so the majority should rule. They have way too much power for such a small group (which is illogical, because if that was the case, they'd already have won their rights). They are a lawbreaking group that doesn't deserve to get what they are asking for. They are starting a "______ war" (it was only called a class war when low income folks spoke up, ditto for the war on the car, race war, etc.) They can maybe be given some smaller version of what they are asking for (this argument only comes out at the end when they have almost had to give in), but it has to be separate and lesser. And the most common refrain, giving into this "special interest group" will be the end of humanity as we know it. The amount of twisting and turning of logic to try to maintain their position is often astounding, as we have seen in this thread.

The upside is that the good side always (eventually) prevails. And the world goes on, usually for the better. I know it's only a bike and we're only talking about 2.5km of bike lane in one city, but once again the overall movement is in a positive direction, and that really makes me feel good.

Also, I can't wait to ride around with my family on the growing bike network. I still have hope that by the time my kid is in his teens and exploring the city with his friends, there will be a proper network of protected lanes to do it safely.
 
Suburban Etobicoke councillor changes vote on Bloor bike lanes to a 'yes'
http://www.metronews.ca/news/toronto/2016/05/03/suburban-councillor-changes-vote-on-bike-lanes.html

councillortweets.jpg


“Riding it, you do realize a separate bike lane is infinitely safer than riding with traffic,” Campbell said.

Fair play to Councilor Campbell.
 
John Tory vs Mammoliti on bike lanes.


The altercation starts at 5:13:25, lasts for several minutes.
 
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salsa said:
John Tory vs Mammoliti on bike lanes.

The altercation starts at 0:00, lasts for several minutes.
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Wow. This guy actually gets paid to represent citizens of Toronto.

Conversely, Tory did a pretty good job trying to keep the discussion relevant and respectful.
 
reaperexpress said:
Wow. This guy actually gets paid to represent citizens of Toronto.

Conversely, Tory did a pretty good job trying to keep the discussion relevant and respectful.
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I understand the nuances of the political debate a lot more after watching that. Whoever the younger councillor who appeared fourth or so into the vid made a compelling case for the trial. Every business association affected is for it, and two of them have collected money to finance a study. It's being supported by local community associations.

That makes an interesting point, because those talking about how it inconveniences drivers are the same people vying for local decisions in their lives. Well that's exactly what this is about: the Locals getting a say in their lives.

Better known as "small 'c' conservatism". Mammoliti is such an incredible hypocrite. He "speaks for the suburbs". Last time I checked, other than Etobicoke, Bloor isn't in the suburbs.
 
steveintoronto said:
I see a lot of stupid cyclists doing truly stupid things. In Holland, Denmark, France...*in general* cyclists are more developed in their sense of protocol. Brits? Not so much. I've spent extensive time cycling there too, and many in the clubs are disciplined and aware, many of the hoi-polloi aren't. London is a nightmare.
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London is bad generally for cycling: there aren't many direct routes, there's a lot of traffic and bikes get to share bus lanes with buses and taxis. There are some badly behaved cyclists but also a fair number of needlessly hostile drivers, especially cabbies. Nonetheless, the number of cyclists is increasing, more dedicated infrastructure is being built, attracting more users, making cycling safer. That's how it works.
 
Yeah, spot on—I was probably equally as terrified cycling in London when I lived there as I am cycling in Toronto (though their infra has improved greatly in the 5ish years since I was there), but they have indeed made headway (and continue to do so). It was interesting to hear Tory speak positively during yesterday's debate about conversations he'd had with (outgoing) London Mayor Boris Johnson about London's efforts at greatly expanding cycle infrastructure.
 
I lived in London UK and cycled everywhere. I didn't feel fearful because I got comfortable cycling... here in downtown Toronto in the 80s. The infrastructure there could be better (difficult because of the narrower streets there) but check out this:
http://londonist.com/2016/04/video-what-are-london-s-cycle-superhighways

My story about the vote will be coming out shortly and will feature a link back to this thread. It'll appear here: http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2016/05/bloor-bike-lanes-pass-toronto-council-surprising-38-3-margin
 
Look at all those well-trained pedestrians NOT walking on the cycle path. And yes he's fast, but he does obey the lights, unlike bike share guy who ran the red.
 
Rather than reply to a lot of excellent posts, *in general* cycling in the UK is safer than in Canada. A lot of that is the "B" roads being available. The "A" roads are often suicide strips. I can't quite explain it, in general, on the backroads it's just *more a part of the fabric*. That being said, cycling in London is different than in other areas. I watched the vid posted by Lemur. Man, London is looking good, I'm amazed at how redevelopment has changed the lay of the land, but videos like that make me anxious. Yes, credit to him for following the rules of the road, but the protocol was *frantic*...perhaps I'm getting wiser as I age, and trust me, on open stretches in the country on back-roads, I can hold a very fast pace, but on congested roads and *bike paths* (lanes, tracks?) common sense tells me to slow down, and beware. The predictability of many of those riders was very low. Some of them you could tell were stable, and defaulting to safety. Others were passing on all sides, and not looking, a real fault I see in many cyclists. If you're going to take chances on a whim *at least look behind you* before doing it, or if you cheat lights and stop signs, look both ways.

I'm realizing now that I'm stressed just watching that. For some odd reason, I've learned to avoid pain and broken body parts. And live to do my miles in the country. I don't want my comments to be an indictment against cycling in the UK, I had some absolutely wonderful rides with clubs (the only group of non-smokers you could find at the time) but that was mostly in outlying areas (Alton, Taunton, Plymouth, north Somerset) and even London had some excellent tracks next to canals and through parks (I was living in Balham at the time) but frantic free-for-alls like that vid? No wonder the death rate is so high in London.

I'm going to have to watch that vid again to make sure my comments are apt, but my immediate impression is *lack of protocol*! You wouldn't drive like that, why cycle that way? In all fairness to London, I see the same erratic behaviour here in Toronto.

If anyone has vids of Holland/Denmark/Nordic or other regions, please post them. Again, I *live* on my machine, it keeps me alive, but I'd love to know if my impression of *societal factors* has skewed my outlook? I'm led to believe in Oz, it's even wilder. Is it an Anglo shortcoming?
 
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