Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
If something does not work from the get go and shows no signs of improving, why keep it in place?
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General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)
- Thread starter rp07
- Start date
If something does not work from the get go and shows no signs of improving, why keep it in place?
ADRM
Senior Member
I don't disagree with that (setting aside potential counterarguments relating to the construction of the study or evaluation/success criteria); my point is that Tory has been at pains to point out his very lukewarm support of what should be a true shoe-in.
salsa
Senior Member
Well that's true too. Tory has agreed to support the pilot project, but has made plenty of noise about how concerned he is that it will slow down drivers (the only metric he cares about when it comes to infrastructure). But for now the biggest hurdle is simply getting the pilot project approved in the first place.
WislaHD
Superstar
What demand is there fore cyclists between Avenue and Yonge street along the 401?Unfortunately, Toronto has anti-bicycling bureaucrats and Councillors who would find a way to reverse this, like they did on Jarvis Street.
Would like to see them take a lane away from the 401 to build a protected bicycle lane between Avenue Road and Yonge Street, where the Yonge Boulevard Viaduct used to be. Or at the very least, build a new bridge just for bicycles and another for pedestrians between Avenue Road and Yonge Street.
I'd much rather the resources be directed to this:
the lemur
Senior Member
The purpose of a pilot project is to try something for a defined period and then evaluate the results. Removing something that 'does not work from the get-go', i.e., appears not to work (whatever the definition of 'not working' might be) defeats the purpose of collecting data during the term of the pilot. Even if it doesn't improve, you still need data to demonstrate that.
the lemur
Senior Member
The pilot will run right outside his condo at One Bedford (just down the street from Remenyi). Should be interesting. I wonder how much downtown driving Tory does.
ADRM
Senior Member
Yeah, the debate thus far has been marked by a host of statistically dubious problems—I fear, even if the pilot is approved, it'll never get a fair shake.
facepalming_brooklynite
Active Member
Yet for the most part, Bloor already has only one lane in each direction, so it's not even going to change anything for drivers.
the lemur
Senior Member
Depending on how wide the proposed pilot bike lanes are and the way parking is dealt with, could it be two lanes in each direction, or 2+1, in places?
ADRM
Senior Member
The city's transportation manager explained why that was ruled out for the pilot, but I can't remember the reasoning. This pilot is likely to be approved and move forward as-is, or not move forward at all, pending this week's Council vote.
andrewpmk
Senior Member
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ollisions-mapped-over-25-years/article543684/
Here's a better map showing the thousands of bike accidents from 1986 to 2010.
There doesn't seem to be any difference between roads with bike lanes (e.g. College) and roads without. There are hundreds of bike accidents on College, Harbord, St. George and other roads with bike lanes in this period.
It seems like the only places where it actually is safe to ride a bike are places where cars are not allowed (like the Toronto Islands and Don/Humber River bike trails). You can see a handful of bike accidents in those areas but not very many. The city should not be encouraging people to ride bikes on busy roads (with or without bike lanes) where it is extremely dangerous.
Here's a better map showing the thousands of bike accidents from 1986 to 2010.
There doesn't seem to be any difference between roads with bike lanes (e.g. College) and roads without. There are hundreds of bike accidents on College, Harbord, St. George and other roads with bike lanes in this period.
It seems like the only places where it actually is safe to ride a bike are places where cars are not allowed (like the Toronto Islands and Don/Humber River bike trails). You can see a handful of bike accidents in those areas but not very many. The city should not be encouraging people to ride bikes on busy roads (with or without bike lanes) where it is extremely dangerous.
WislaHD
Superstar
You are telling me that highly used cycling lanes with thousands of daily users will over a span of 25 years, have some accidents? What a surprise.
A street like College may have 100s of cycling incidents compared to some suburban road; but it does not mean that the suburban road is safer for cyclists.
In fact, if you click around on the map then it is pretty clear the vast majority of cycling accidents take place in the downtown core compared to the suburbs. There are also many many many times more cyclists in the downtown core compared to the suburbs. This map and data doesn't tell the story you want it to tell.
LNahid2000
Senior Member
How about you use relative numbers instead of absolute numbers in your arguments. So stupid. According to your argument Yonge/401 is safe on a bike.
West End Boy
Active Member
By that logic, the roads where cars get into accidents aren't safe and therefore we shouldn't encourage driving by giving cars a lane on the road. Do you have any idea how many accidents involve cars, especially where they have a lane to drive in?
I'm so curious what's behind your relentless and illogical opposition. Did you have a bad experience? Are you a lobbyist for the car companies? Do you really believe that the fact that there are accidents involving bikes means that they should pack it in and the city should ban them? Because that's what it sounds like you are getting at.
Again, lots of people cycle, it's a good thing for congestion and air quality and our healthcare system, and the city should be supporting it. Change is often hard for people who are set in their ways and don't have the imagination to see a future vision. But luckily we always get there, even if it takes us 40 years.
andrewpmk
Senior Member
I am concerned about safety. The statistics clearly show that biking is far more dangerous than other methods of transportation. I wouldn't exactly call driving a car safe but it is nowhere near as dangerous as riding a bike. I think that most people in Toronto realize this (that's why the percentage of people who ride bikes to work is about 2% and hasn't changed very much). Bicycles are a rare sight in most areas of Toronto outside downtown and anytime in the winter or when it is raining. There are obvious signs that bicycling is not very popular: the bike share system in Toronto has flopped like bike share systems have everywhere because hardly anyone uses it, and the bike racks that TTC and various other transit systems have installed on buses are rarely used. However, city council is incompetent and the bike lobby has far too much political power in Toronto. I wish city council would spend money on real methods of transportation like more subway lines but that costs far more money than installing some white paint and some "bike lane" signs. Taking the subway is by far the safest method of transportation and bicycling is among the most dangerous.