Coltaine79
Active Member
Why should we trust you? Do you write for The Daily Telegraph, or perhaps The Times? Maybe, The Independent?
What's that... you don't? You're just an internet forum poster?
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G-20 Summit in Toronto
- Thread starter TO City of Light
- Start date
Why should we trust you? Do you write for The Daily Telegraph, or perhaps The Times? Maybe, The Independent?
What's that... you don't? You're just an internet forum poster?
jn_12
Senior Member
I read them all actually, and posted them earlier in the thread. Clearly you didn't read them because 12 hours without water and a reporter from the Guardian being held by his arms while a 3rd police officer punches him in the stomach are surely acts of brutality. Those are just two of the many stories that have come out and considering the vast majority of these people who these stories involve are innocent, it should be very disconcerting that such a thing can happen in not just our country, but our city.
jn_12
Senior Member
More news from the holding pens:
http://torontoist.com/2010/06/g20_eastern_avenue_detention_centre.php
The group's accounts of conditions inside the detention centre are ones of austerity, antagonism, suffering, confusion, and disorganization. Kimia Ghomeshi recalls "tons of police, most of [whom] weren't doing anything." She says officers routinely replied to requests for information by saying, "I have no idea what's going on...I wish I knew." Detainees were locked in cages, denied access to legal counsel, and in some cases, says Robichaud and many others we spoke to who were detained, ridiculed or ignored when requesting first aid or prescribed medication, including a man who fainted after repeatedly being denied treatment for what he said was diabetes. Taylor Flook was in a cell with a woman who claimed to need medication for her bipolar disorder, which she was denied for three hours. Many of the ten describe lighting that made sleep difficult or impossible, especially in concert with heckling officers and screaming captives. They say detainees who experienced extreme anxiety and panic attacks were released from cages to calm down, only be locked up again after a few minutes. Ghomeshi says the conditions were "a complete violation of our rights."
At least as troubling are allegations of racist and sexist behaviour by officers. Maryam Adrangi relates a conversation between the male officers who photographed her during processing: "'Take another one,' says an officer. Another says, 'Send me one!' A third says, 'let's keep this one [Adrangi] here a bit longer.'" Robichaud claims that an officer commented on a wooden turtle she wears as a necklace, asking if it was her "totem." She says he continued: "That sure as hell didn't help you out last night, did it?" Robichaud claims that officers "tried to break our spirits and ridicule our beliefs." There were toilets in plain view, strip searches, and concerns that at least two detainees who were identified as minors but not permitted to leave.
http://torontoist.com/2010/06/g20_eastern_avenue_detention_centre.php
The group's accounts of conditions inside the detention centre are ones of austerity, antagonism, suffering, confusion, and disorganization. Kimia Ghomeshi recalls "tons of police, most of [whom] weren't doing anything." She says officers routinely replied to requests for information by saying, "I have no idea what's going on...I wish I knew." Detainees were locked in cages, denied access to legal counsel, and in some cases, says Robichaud and many others we spoke to who were detained, ridiculed or ignored when requesting first aid or prescribed medication, including a man who fainted after repeatedly being denied treatment for what he said was diabetes. Taylor Flook was in a cell with a woman who claimed to need medication for her bipolar disorder, which she was denied for three hours. Many of the ten describe lighting that made sleep difficult or impossible, especially in concert with heckling officers and screaming captives. They say detainees who experienced extreme anxiety and panic attacks were released from cages to calm down, only be locked up again after a few minutes. Ghomeshi says the conditions were "a complete violation of our rights."
At least as troubling are allegations of racist and sexist behaviour by officers. Maryam Adrangi relates a conversation between the male officers who photographed her during processing: "'Take another one,' says an officer. Another says, 'Send me one!' A third says, 'let's keep this one [Adrangi] here a bit longer.'" Robichaud claims that an officer commented on a wooden turtle she wears as a necklace, asking if it was her "totem." She says he continued: "That sure as hell didn't help you out last night, did it?" Robichaud claims that officers "tried to break our spirits and ridicule our beliefs." There were toilets in plain view, strip searches, and concerns that at least two detainees who were identified as minors but not permitted to leave.
picard102
Senior Member
As if working for a paper makes you somehow trustworthy?
urbandreamer
recession proof
Hmm, sounds like those folks wouldn't make good urban planners.
Seriously, my street was empty. Where were the protesters? I was disappointed. (I walk down many Junction and High Park area streets freely, very strange, eh?)
Seriously, my street was empty. Where were the protesters? I was disappointed. (I walk down many Junction and High Park area streets freely, very strange, eh?)
Automation Gallery
Superstar
Thats all rubbish..well see what comes out in the wash.."Its ridÃculos how so many people are jumping on the bandwagon against the Toronto police".
khris
Senior Member
That is called being prepared.
buildup
Senior Member
Well, I love observing your logic unfold. YES! I have a horse in this race- several in fact: a job (for now), a mortgage (for certain), a dislike for people who thrill in violence or who want to 'observe' but complkain when they get drawn in. And my challenge stands - present anyone who has been subjected to actual police violence. To say that a detention center was unbearable for all of 15 hours because the lights were on, or the water, food, blankets were inadequate is to GREATLY disrespect and diminish the ACTUAL suffering and oppression REAL victims suffer EVERY day in 20 countries. Apparently, things are so pampered in our society a simple shove or rude exchange is considered a beating.
I have a good friend who took a blind-side punch and soccer kick to the head 20 years ago who still doesn't walk properly. You would have similat friends. That is violence. We had 5,000 cops and 5,000-10,000 protestors. Show me anything beyond bruised feelings. Trott them out for the breathless photographers.
khris
Senior Member
Blair on Saturday after his press conference said to a reported who asked if any of the rubber bullets had been fired, answered NO. He said he had been in touch with his members and the definite answer was NO. So how is one to believe he really knew what was going on, and that people were really warned 3 times to leave? If you were watching CP24 live, you would know that nobody was asked to leave at all. They were right in the middle of it. If you did try to leave, you were arrested and detained, not left to leave on your own free will.
buildup
Senior Member
Left-wing reporters (as this guy describes himself) have greater biases, and conflicts of interest that do "we". I am not looking for publicity, fame, money or anything - they are. These reporters know exactly how to press the cops button - like standing 6" in front of them for hours and backing up as slowly as possible.
Its comical how these guys complain about the arrests BUT WE KNOW it has been the single greatest thrill of their lives. They will tell these tales for the rest of their days. 'there i was with Mandela...' Groan.
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Redroom Studios
Senior Member
thanks to MikeInTO for his in depth first hand account of events and his very accurate and level headed analysis of the events of Saturday afternoon.
my thoughts about the actions on Spadina Ave late Sunday. These actions seemed to commence as the summit was concluding and leaders were going to be leaving the secured area. The police wanted to freeze the movements of all who were on the streets. My feeling at that point was - alright this is over, go home people. Of course as we saw numerous times on the weekend there was a mix of taunters and inciters, backed by other no minded assholes who just wanted to be part of the spectacle, mixed in with dozens of wannabe photography superheroes. When the police tell you that enough is enough and to leave the area and you refuse to do so, you get what you deserve... you get rushed, arrested and detained. I am truly surprised by how many people on here are insistent about their right and the rights of others to be an asshole in a public place.
And all this whining about the harsh conditions in the holding center. Please... they were clearly given the legally required necessities. What do you expect - you play the game, you pay the price. You cant have it both ways. Hopefully one or two morons learned a lesson from seeing the inside of that holding center.
Luckily it seems that wider public opinion is supportive of what the police did on the whole... the complaints of brutality are completely unfounded, you get what you ask for. Dont like it, stay home next time.
my thoughts about the actions on Spadina Ave late Sunday. These actions seemed to commence as the summit was concluding and leaders were going to be leaving the secured area. The police wanted to freeze the movements of all who were on the streets. My feeling at that point was - alright this is over, go home people. Of course as we saw numerous times on the weekend there was a mix of taunters and inciters, backed by other no minded assholes who just wanted to be part of the spectacle, mixed in with dozens of wannabe photography superheroes. When the police tell you that enough is enough and to leave the area and you refuse to do so, you get what you deserve... you get rushed, arrested and detained. I am truly surprised by how many people on here are insistent about their right and the rights of others to be an asshole in a public place.
And all this whining about the harsh conditions in the holding center. Please... they were clearly given the legally required necessities. What do you expect - you play the game, you pay the price. You cant have it both ways. Hopefully one or two morons learned a lesson from seeing the inside of that holding center.
Luckily it seems that wider public opinion is supportive of what the police did on the whole... the complaints of brutality are completely unfounded, you get what you ask for. Dont like it, stay home next time.
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Roy G Biv
Senior Member
This rant has nothing to do with what I called you out on. At no point have I accused the police of ubiquitous or systematic brutality.
A journalist was assaulted for no reason, and this was witnessed by Steve Paiken, a well-respected centrist member of the media who can be deemed as credible. You dismissed this allegation, and went straight for a character assassination. Please explain.
Redroom Studios said:
You get what you ask for? You don't care which side of the line of law these people were on? I think that's very important. You can't hit people with batons for simply being idiots. I'm guessing you're in the "she shouldn't have dressed like that if she didn't want it" camp.
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insertrealname
Active Member
Stop right there: apologist of violence? Get a grip on yourself: I'm perhaps guilty of imprecise choice of words--I meant politicians, rather than governments en bloc--and certainly guilty of posting a reply too quickly, but I can't think of anything in that post that makes it an apology for violence. I was simply referring to how the unacceptable actions and extremism of a tiny minority, piggy-backing on legitimate protest, tends to cast a shadow on the actions and opinions of those domestic NGOs who disagree with the main stream of politics and business-as-usual, making the latter even less willing to go out of their ideological and policy comfort zones in their dialog with civil society.
I entirely agree with what you write--far more eloquently than I can manage!--but I was not discussing the hooligans in my quick post, just their effect of their violence on the dialogue between social advocates and politicians on difficult, polarizing issues, especially where these issues become tainted or marginalized by the linking you refer to, to the point where no politician really wants to touch them, and apparent quick fixes are sometimes preferred, because less politically costly. Think of such things as the treatment of substance abuse, youth crime, etc, especially where the problems involve public disorder and marginalized populations that the majority fears in any case.
No, they deserve a full and fair public trial in the courts--that will expose and repudiate their hooliganism and exemplify the rule of law that we all want.
Coltaine79
Active Member
*shrug* There were enough 3rd party witnesses to describe what happened to that fellow... it doesn't matter if you're a Tea Party member who automatically puts his fingers in his ears anytime a self-identified "left wing person" says something
buildup
Senior Member
Almost as bad as the mild hazing I got as an undergrad down east. Of course being stripped naked by 4th year students, tied to a mattress and left on the lunch counter at the women's dorm has become a fonder memory with time. As will these tales. Seriously, just read that stuff above. I'm still trying to find the uncomfortable part.