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Former President Donald Trump's United States of America

Johnny Au said:
Even Nixon's Republicans were against gun rights. Many left-wing militias at the time were in favour of arming themselves.

Therefore, the right doesn't have a monopoly over gun rights.

It's mainly centrists and those who are left of centre who are mostly in favour of gun control. I am in favour of gun control.
Click to expand...

That's when left-wing militias were a thing, motivated by icons like Che Guevara--but, nothing like the right wing (as well as tinpot-Marxist regimes elsewhere) to toxify something once identified with "the left". And as some are pointing out, even an arch-hippie like Charles Manson sounded a note of race war et al that's more akin to present-day Trump/Q/Boogaloo cultish lunacy.

But of course, in true MAGA-camp retrogressive spirit, 2020 is no different from 1970, and yesterday's enemy is the same as today's enemy.

commie_white_front_small.jpg
 
adma said:
That's when left-wing militias were a thing, motivated by icons like Che Guevara--but, nothing like the right wing (as well as tinpot-Marxist regimes elsewhere) to toxify something once identified with "the left". And as some are pointing out, even an arch-hippie like Charles Manson sounded a note of race war et al that's more akin to present-day Trump/Q/Boogaloo cultish lunacy.

But of course, in true MAGA-camp retrogressive spirit, 2020 is no different from 1970, and yesterday's enemy is the same as today's enemy.

commie_white_front_small.jpg
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There's also plenty of Red Scare rhetoric revived by Trump and allies.

It's McCarthyism all over again.
 
Johnny Au said:
There's also plenty of Red Scare rhetoric revived by Trump and allies.

It's McCarthyism all over again.
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Honour in leaderhip might be only a quaint 19th century idea , if there really ever was or could be such a thing in American politics . Trumpism has exposed the warts in a system that was supposed to be fool-proof with checks and balances. Rabid Trump supporters are still fighting the Revolutionary War or the Civil War or the battle against creeping socialism, or alleged lawlessness...doesn't really matter, just harness that anger callously, and use it . Gravitas - Trump puts on and off as it suits his mood just to energize the base, his foot soldiers. This election will be won in the trenches.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Do the BLM and other protestors want Trump to win? These folks need to go home and protest at the ballot box. Their marches, rioting and looting will scare suburban America to vote for Trump.
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Both opposing major political movements in the United States have their own fifth column.

For BLM (and Biden by extension), it's the vandals and agitators. For Trump (and the alt-right by extension), it's the Boogaloos and their allies.

No matter who wins, a Second American Civil War is becoming inevitable.

Should we allow American refugees to settle in our country? That is a good question to ask.
 
Johnny Au said:
No matter who wins, a Second American Civil War is becoming inevitable.
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Everyone likes to think they live in interesting, history-making times.

IMO, this will blow over, the central tenets of being an American remain the same for all.... obesity, celebrity fawning, debt and consumption, religion, guns, prisons and faux outrage combined with slacktivism.
 
Johnny Au said:
Both opposing major political movements in the United States have their own fifth column.

No matter who wins, a Second American Civil War is becoming inevitable.
Click to expand...


I'm actually not convinced. The US political system has historically been highly polarized and each party exploits its ebbs and flows. I will grant that Trump has weaponized it better than his predecessors. However, there is still the middle or unaligned, which hovers between 30 and 40% of the electorate. I simply don't see that single, nation-wide, spark that will galvanize the population into battle lines. Smaller localized skirmishes perhaps, perhaps even some irregular militia groups becoming offensive, but I can't see it being sustained. I saw a recent poll, somewhere, that showed support for the President, falling amongst US military personnel.

www.bu.edu

Are We Headed for Another Civil War?

Noted Civil War historian Nina Silber, a BU professor of history and American studies, on whether the current political climate in the US could lead to another civil war.
www.bu.edu www.bu.edu
 
lenaitch said:
I'm actually not convinced. The US political system has historically been highly polarized and each party exploits its ebbs and flows. I will grant that Trump has weaponized it better than his predecessors. However, there is still the middle or unaligned, which hovers between 30 and 40% of the electorate. I simply don't see that single, nation-wide, spark that will galvanize the population into battle lines. Smaller localized skirmishes perhaps, perhaps even some irregular militia groups becoming offensive, but I can't see it being sustained. I saw a recent poll, somewhere, that showed support for the President, falling amongst US military personnel.

www.bu.edu

Are We Headed for Another Civil War?

Noted Civil War historian Nina Silber, a BU professor of history and American studies, on whether the current political climate in the US could lead to another civil war.
www.bu.edu www.bu.edu
Click to expand...
That article was published last year. The Boogaloo movement reached mainstream attention a few months after that article was published.

This year is different. The Second American Civil War is more likely than the article would predict.
 
Trump tactic is to cause a quasi civil war and rally the white vote in key states.

Looking at the polls some states are still very close despite the national poll showing a landslide to biden.

Not that trump can win but that the election can be close causing a ton of problems.
 
lenaitch said:
I'm actually not convinced. The US political system has historically been highly polarized and each party exploits its ebbs and flows. I will grant that Trump has weaponized it better than his predecessors. However, there is still the middle or unaligned, which hovers between 30 and 40% of the electorate. I simply don't see that single, nation-wide, spark that will galvanize the population into battle lines. Smaller localized skirmishes perhaps, perhaps even some irregular militia groups becoming offensive, but I can't see it being sustained. I saw a recent poll, somewhere, that showed support for the President, falling amongst US military personnel.

www.bu.edu

Are We Headed for Another Civil War?

Noted Civil War historian Nina Silber, a BU professor of history and American studies, on whether the current political climate in the US could lead to another civil war.
www.bu.edu www.bu.edu
Click to expand...

While I'm broadly inclined to agree with you.

I had a look the other day at recent, very detailed poll.

It examined voting intentions, decided voter voting intentions, also favourable/unfavourables for both Biden/Trump and Harris/Pence.

What caught my eye was the the unfavourables were 54 Biden, 55 Trump, in the independent column, Harris got a higher unfavourable than Pence in the same.

The undecided was 8%, with 4% leaning each way.

That particular poll showed Biden 47/Trump 41.

At face value, if you added back the undecided but leaning, you get 51-45 for Biden.

But the unfavourables can be telling. Voters tend to vote against people more than in favour.

If 54% of Independents don't like Biden....... I'm not concerned most would vote Trump.........but that they might stay home.

In that scenario, its now 47 Biden, 45 Trump; a subsequent poll puts them closer.

Fivethirtyeight.com come gives Trump a 31% chance of a win; other sites have it close to 50/50.

But anything close might be a problem. Civil War, as you note, seems quite unlikely.

I don't see the military bifurcating.

But Civil unrest.....that seems highly plausible.

Barring a big surprise, the Dems will control the House come November.

But the Senate will tell another interesting tale.

The potential for 4 years of gridlock under either party is real; and could also cause enormous frustration.
 
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I think the issue of voting 'against' versus 'for', or simply staying home, is a long standing issue in the US, as it is here and probably most other mature democracies. I think the degree of entrenched partisan polarization - people supporting party 'x' for generations - is something generally foreign to us, at least on a significant scale.

Civil unrest has been a hallmark US trait for years and I don't necessarily see it graduating to a full-on shootin' civil war this time over any others, in spite of their current president exploiting the divisions. Perhaps Jasmine's view of a 'virtual' civil war is apt. It's kinda like Orwell's 1984 - there is always a foe, it just keeps changing to suit.
 
According to 538 biden lead has gone down from 10 percent to 7 percent.

That is not good as biden lead mostly comes from huge margins in blue states.

What that means winning states like Texas and Georgia won't happen if things get tighter and trump can then win states like nc and flordia if things get closer.

Biden victory seems likely but it may not be a massive blowout.
 
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