News   Dec 08, 2025
 33     0 
News   Dec 08, 2025
 278     0 
News   Dec 08, 2025
 214     0 

Finch West Line 6 LRT

Someone on reddit claimed 31 minutes or something around there from Humber to Finch west. Lot of potential if they can get the headway somewhat consistent
Get on the Line 6 Finch West today and tell me what you see, the tram is crawling and not accelerating to its top speed of 60 km/h and stopping at red lights for ~8-10 minutes out of every one way trip. Not only that, the trip times are not even consistent. Although I did not time my trips.

I rode the LRT from Humber college to Finch West station and it took 50 minutes. On the way there we were passed by a 36 bus. The ride back from Finch West Station to Humber College was faster at 35 minutes, but we were also passed by a 36 bus.

I think it is very clear that the LRT needs to be given priority because on average we were stuck behind red lights for about 1-2 minutes each light. If the LRT was given priority it could have been a lot faster. I'm hopeful for the line, it's a big improvement. With some smart changes I think it can be efficient.
FW36 please tell me that's a typo, and you meant to say 45 minutes back from Finch West to Humber College. If 35 minutes and 50 minutes were the actual trip times, then this 15 difference is highly concerning. As was expected, the lack of strong signal priority is leading to inconsistent trip times. Absolute clownery from the TTC and the City.

Maybe some can clarify as to who is to blame and to what degree they are responsible for this ****show: Metrolinx, mayor, city council, and/or the TTC Board. In practice, "conditional" signal priority might as well be no signal priority.
We get weak signal priority at best in Toronto on the streetcars (and very rarely buses). The city likes to call it "unconditional", but "unconditional" and weak for the streetcars is clearly not enough, so I hate to see how bad "conditional" is for Line 5 and 6.

"All of the City's current TSP locations are 'unconditional' in their operation. [...] For these reasons, and in consultation with the City and TTC the Metrolinx consortia are implementing Conditional TSP on Line 5 Eglinton and Line 6 Finch West."
TSP Toronto source: https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2025/cc/bgrd/backgroundfile-254795.pdf
 
In another conversation, someone had mentioned that starting from Finch to Humber College, the duration of the ride was between 49 to 53 minutes total.
 
Get on the Line 6 Finch West today and tell me what you see, the tram is crawling and not accelerating to its top speed of 60 km/h and stopping at red lights for ~8-10 minutes out of every one way trip. Not only that, the trip times are not even consistent. Although I did not time my trips.


FW36 please tell me that's a typo, and you meant to say 45 minutes back from Finch West to Humber College. If 35 minutes and 50 minutes were the actual trip times, then this 15 difference is highly concerning. As was expected, the lack of strong signal priority is leading to inconsistent trip times. Absolute clownery from the TTC and the City.

Maybe some can clarify as to who is to blame and to what degree they are responsible for this ****show: Metrolinx, mayor, city council, and/or the TTC Board. In practice, "conditional" signal priority might as well be no signal priority.
No typo but the train was packed from Humber College to Finch West Station with lots of people getting on and off at every stations. The train coming back was a lot more emptier and few people getting on and off.
 
Also, the next train displays seem to be entirely not working?
They were working earlier, apparently. But yes, they have been down most of the morning!

I heard one of the LRVs had a mechanical issue as well.

I was on the third or fourth train out of Finch West. I think the train ahead of us had a bunch of foamers railfans jumping out to get the commemorative coins and jumping back on. We got stuck behind them and we timed the trip at 57 minutes. The return journey seemed faster. Still not a fast transit line by any means. I did not enjoy stopping at every red light, then stopping again at every far side station. Or crawling through an empty right of way for no apparent reason.
 
I timed my trips.

Finch West to Humber College: 56 minutes
Humber College to Finch West: 54 minutes

Was pretty consistent. My friend who was a frequent taker of the Finch Bus said it was typically 45 minutes. The Finch Bus drivers used to zip down the road outside peak rush hour, which is not seeming like the behaviour of these trains.
 
Last edited:
Imagine if Transit City had gone through. Then we would have had a NeTwOrk of this crap.
You're right, chief, discrediting an entire type of transport is way smarter than adjusting our operations to match those that countless cities across the globe engage in every single day... 🙄🙄🙄🙄

All it would take is a flick of a pen to transform the 6 from a slow white elephant into a speedy form of rapid transit. The fact that we can't do that doesn't mean that the smart thing was to cancel Transit City.
 
Took 3 vehicles on the line, the first 2 were the slowest transit vehicle i have ever been on. This includes busses and streetcar. What made it worst was that the stations were on the far side of the intersection. So we would slow down getting to every red light. Then crawl through the intersection to stop at the station. If the line had full TSP this setup would make sense. But without it it made everything slower. Also the trains would be stopped at the station 3x to 5x longer than they needed to like they were intentionally stopping longer to slow down the train.

The 3rd train I was on (towards finch wesr) was surprisingly zippy and we seem to be going twice as fast. But still slower than I had hopped far (max speed was 40km/hour)
 
You're right, chief, discrediting an entire type of transport is way smarter than adjusting our operations to match those that countless cities across the globe engage in every single day... 🙄🙄🙄🙄

All it would take is a flick of a pen to transform the 6 from a slow white elephant into a speedy form of rapid transit. The fact that we can't do that doesn't mean that the smart thing was to cancel Transit City.
And here comes the copium train.

Fact of the matter is the speeds that were being sold were optimistic to begin with. Marco Chitti made an article going over this a few days ago and points out that trams similar in style to Finch West struggle to hit the 20km/h average speed and typically fall around 17-18km/h. Sure that's an improvement over Finch West's 13, but these aren't the type of speeds to build a network around.

Here's the relevant quote. Note that "Type A" means tram train similar to Calgary, Dallas, and Ottawa, meanwhile Type B means tramway similar to Finch West. https://marcochitti.substack.com/p/build-trams-but-build-them-well
There is growing evidence of an “optimism bias” regarding the attainable performance of tramways or other transit services operating in “type B” right-of-way, pushed by an ill-informed idea diffused in political and planning circles that type B right-of-way and signal priority (a poorly understood problem by laypeople) can yield performances equivalent to a vehicle running in type A right-of-way. In other words, you can have metro performances, but on a budget. Similar to what Bent Flyvbjerg describes for ridership estimates or early cost estimates, there is a tendency in early planning for “strategically misrepresenting” (more or less intentionally) the level of speed performances tramways can achieve.

In the business case, the LRT options for Finch are estimated to reach an average speed of 22 km/h (page 8), well above the currently scheduled 13.5 km/h. In the early 1990s, the expected average speed for Bologna’s planned “metrotranvia” was set at 20-25 km/h, as was common for that kind of project at the time. The current system under construction is expected to average 17.8 km/h (PFTE and Final Design), or as low as 14.5 km/h in more recent documents (Progetto Esecutivo) that incorporate additional speed restrictions required by the fixed-guideway transit regulatory body, ANSFISA. The same happened in Bordeaux, where the initial estimates indicated 21 km/h, while the actual running speed is closer to 18 km/h, and as low as 12 km/h in the city center, with many trips showing no substantial improvement over the pre-existing bus service. In Helsinki, there has long been a target speed of around 25 km/h for LRT in planning documents. However, the realities of the urban environment and the multiple compromises required to achieve other goals, such as safety, urban integration, and coexistence with other modes, have resulted in reduced operational speeds in many recent tramway projects. Only the orbital Jokeri LRT, with its many type A segments, comes close.
Like no, European cities aren't significantly better at this.
 
I rode the LRT from Humber college to Finch West station and it took 50 minutes. On the way there we were passed by a 36 bus. The ride back from Finch West Station to Humber College was faster at 35 minutes, but we were also passed by a 36 bus.

I think it is very clear that the LRT needs to be given priority because on average we were stuck behind red lights for about 1-2 minutes each light. If the LRT was given priority it could have been a lot faster. I'm hopeful for the line, it's a big improvement. With some smart changes I think it can be efficient.
I understand that getting signal priority will speed this streetcar up but doesn't your example showcase that buses are faster than streetcars given the same signal priority (since buses get stopped at red lights too)? Shouldn't the streetcar still be faster?
 
And here comes the copium train.

Fact of the matter is the speeds that were being sold were optimistic to begin with. Marco Chitti made an article going over this a few days ago and points out that trams similar in style to Finch West struggle to hit the 20km/h average speed and typically fall around 17-18km/h. Sure that's an improvement over Finch West's 13, but these aren't the type of speeds to build a network around.

Here's the relevant quote. Note that "Type A" means tram train similar to Calgary, Dallas, and Ottawa, meanwhile Type B means tramway similar to Finch West. https://marcochitti.substack.com/p/build-trams-but-build-them-well

Like no, European cities aren't significantly better at this.

It's not copium, it's lived experience.

I haven't been to any of the named cities, but in a city like Prague or Bratislava, their trams running in Finch style rights of way are speedy and are competitive to the subway (in cities that have one) for short and medium distance journeys.
 
Last edited:

Back
Top