Finch West Line 6 LRT

[Steve X]

The thing that pisses me off, even more, is the colour of the seats. Those SHOULD be blue and red, like every other vehicle in the system. Yellow and green have no place on the TTC.

That's just personal preference. I like the change of colour. It's not a TTC vehicle after all and ML can revoke TTC operation after the initial operating contract ends. They can also move the LRVs to another line away from the TTC hence they wouldn't use the TTC seat colours.

 

[TossYourJacket]

I expect the real reason there's no red, just boring grey, on the exterior is to make the LRVs look less like the regular streetcars, because of the SUBWAYS SUBWAYS SUBWAYS crowd.

 

[Neutrino]

Signal priority and dedicated ROW matters a million times more for LRT than seat and vehicle colour FFS

 

[sche]

The seat colours are fine, TfL has like 10 different seat colours/patterns

 

[robmausser]

As has been mentioned the reason Metrolinx gave (as laughable as it is) is that grey resembles the TTC subway trains which are Torontos rapid transit . . .

Which is silly because they arent grey they are metallic silver, and the Toronto Rockets are pretty bland colour wise. Not really something I would be inspired by.

They are trying to make the LRTs look more like subways than streetcars, but its really not that convincing. Especially without the red interiors.

On that note a true metallic silver LRT like the subways would look...interesting.

 

[Streety McCarface]

That's just personal preference. I like the change of colour. It's not a TTC vehicle after all and ML can revoke TTC operation after the initial operating contract ends. They can also move the LRVs to another line away from the TTC hence they wouldn't use the TTC seat colours.

Like that's ever going to happen, the TTC has far more ridership and has far more experience operating both rapid transit and surface rail transit than Metrolinx ever will. Even then, iON is run by Keolis, while embracing the GRT liveries.

Regardless, these lines are part of the TTC network. In terms of accessibility, blue has standardly denoted the areas for accessible seating, while red themes were used for other seats. I honestly don't mind if the seats have a different pattern, but the current design does not fit with the rest of the TTC network (or even the Metrolinx theme). It just adds cost and complexity to the operations and differentiates the lines from the TTC network, something these lines should not be trying to do.

They did the new streetcars quite well, why must these lines do everything they can to distance themselves from the TTC?

 

[tmlittle]

Like that's ever going to happen, the TTC has far more ridership and has far more experience operating both rapid transit and surface rail transit than Metrolinx ever will. Even then, iON is run by Keolis, while embracing the GRT liveries.

Regardless, these lines are part of the TTC network. In terms of accessibility, blue has standardly denoted the areas for accessible seating, while red themes were used for other seats. I honestly don't mind if the seats have a different pattern, but the current design does not fit with the rest of the TTC network (or even the Metrolinx theme). It just adds cost and complexity to the operations and differentiates the lines from the TTC network, something these lines should not be trying to do.

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They did the new streetcars quite well, why must these lines do everything they can to distance themselves from the TTC?

I don't think seat patterns matter much in the big scheme of things, but I do think there's a legitimate issue. In systems like the London rail lines you see each line having distinctive colour schemes, names, and identities (less sterile than numbering) but you also have unifying characteristics like the use of the iconic roundel. Some would argue Metrolinx is a pseudo-TfL in this case, but I'd argue that the TTC should be Toronto's TfL given Metrolinx serves a much larger area and is concentrated on higher order rail, and having downtown and suburban (eg Mississauga) systems under different agencies really encourages odd service segregation and lack of easy mobility. More practically it also empowers the province and gives it even more influence in these situations, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find anybody who really liked the provincial government or thinks they should have such a direct role in what's fundamentally local affairs.

 

[Steve X]

Like that's ever going to happen, the TTC has far more ridership and has far more experience operating both rapid transit and surface rail transit than Metrolinx ever will. Even then, iON is run by Keolis, while embracing the GRT liveries.

Regardless, these lines are part of the TTC network. In terms of accessibility, blue has standardly denoted the areas for accessible seating, while red themes were used for other seats. I honestly don't mind if the seats have a different pattern, but the current design does not fit with the rest of the TTC network (or even the Metrolinx theme). It just adds cost and complexity to the operations and differentiates the lines from the TTC network, something these lines should not be trying to do.

View attachment 213775
View attachment 213777
They did the new streetcars quite well, why must these lines do everything they can to distance themselves from the TTC?

A good question for ML. They been doing everything to distinguish themselves from the TTC as they are better and superior. Even if that's never going to happen, they would still like to maintain control that enables the possibility. It allows ML to protest the city/TTC in the future with as a bargaining chips. The fact that the entire system is designed with a backup transit control centre and clear distinction between who owns what shows that ML maintains control to separate the LRTs from the TTC system if they desire. They can really take back operations and have the LRT operate independently with it's own fare system or part of GO Transit in the future. It could even be a tool to force the TTC to join the regional fare system or revoke operations and fare system integration.

We don't know if these different colour seats will add cost to the TTC. TTC isn't the owner of these vehicles and they will probably not be allowed to touch the seats. All repairs and refurbishment will be handled by a third party contractor. ML will foot the bill for daily operation maintenance to the city. TTC will just supply the operator and do the line management. As to who they even call for mechanical difficulties, maybe someone on this board knows? I suspect the driver would call transit control and they'll contact the contractor opposed to regular TTC maintenance workers when they need to send people out. I suspect the cost and complexity would be the same even if they used the same seating material as the TTC and new seat replacements won't be coming from Hillcrest.

Personally I'm not agreeing that this is the right choice. Queen's Park shouldn't be fighting City Hall over transit issues as they did for a whole year till very recently.

 

[W. K. Lis]

From link.

Starting as early as November 2019 and continuing until the end of the year, crews will be completing several activities to prepare for the construction of the surface section of the Finch West LRT at Finch Ave W. and Hwy 27 as well as at Hwy 27 and Humber College Blvd. In order of occurrence, these preparatory works will begin shortly:​

• Installation of temporary traffic signals​

• Removal of concrete medians​

• Then, installation of a new watermain followed by road widening works.​

​

Hours of Work:​

• Work is expected to start in November 2019 and continue until the end of the year.​

• Monday to Friday, day and night, as required.​

• Work may be delayed due to weather conditions or unforeseen circumstances.​

​

What to Expect:​

• A crew installing new temporary traffic signals and removing the current ones.​

• A crew removing concrete medians and bus shelters, as needed.​

• Heavy trucks and equipment will be active in the area.​

• Please take care when travelling or walking near work sites.​

​

Traffic and Pedestrian Impacts:​

• Lanes will be reduced at the intersections.​

• Minimum one lane of traffic in each direction along Finch Ave. W., Hwy. 27 and Humber College Blvd.​

• Construction will be organized in a manner that will not obstruct adjacent bus stops.​

• Pedestrian traffic will be maintained.​

• Access to adjacent businesses and residences will be maintained.​

 

[Streety McCarface]

A good question for ML. They been doing everything to distinguish themselves from the TTC as they are better and superior. Even if that's never going to happen, they would still like to maintain control that enables the possibility.

While I agree with the message of your comment, I can say for certain that Metrolinx is not better than the TTC. Superior from a provincial power sense, sure, but the TTC has decades more experience running transit throughout this city. Metrolinx has almost no experience operating transit vehicles, as GO and the LRT lines are contracted out to Bombardier and the TTC/third parties respectively (I don't know the state of the buses).

Hypothetically, if Metrolinx were to revoke the TTC's operating privileges, and privatized the operations, they would lose. The TTC would run buses on the lost corridors and the vast majority of riders would choose the buses over the LRT lines because they wouldn't have to pay to transfer.

 

[Steve X]

While I agree with the message of your comment, I can say for certain that Metrolinx is not better than the TTC. Superior from a provincial power sense, sure, but the TTC has decades more experience running transit throughout this city. Metrolinx has almost no experience operating transit vehicles, as GO and the LRT lines are contracted out to Bombardier and the TTC/third parties respectively (I don't know the state of the buses).

Hypothetically, if Metrolinx were to revoke the TTC's operating privileges, and privatized the operations, they would lose. The TTC would run buses on the lost corridors and the vast majority of riders would choose the buses over the LRT lines because they wouldn't have to pay to transfer.

We all know they aren't. They just think they are especially with project delivery.

The rights for TTC to operate a transit system is a privilege given by Queen's Park in the CIty of Toronto Act, 2006. It can be revoked at anytime. A simple amendment can let disallow the TTC from running parallel bus service along all ML rapid transit corridor. Of course this is really bizarre but a take over of the entire TTC is possible if the city/TTC refuses to submit to Queen's Park's order. A merger of all GTA transit agencies into GO Transit is entirely possible if desired. They already banned the city/TTC from working on any subway expansion without permission!

 

[Streety McCarface]

We all know they aren't. They just think they are especially with project delivery.

The rights for TTC to operate a transit system is a privilege given by Queen's Park in the CIty of Toronto Act, 2006. It can be revoked at anytime. A simple amendment can let disallow the TTC from running parallel bus service along all ML rapid transit corridor. Of course this is really bizarre but a take over of the entire TTC is possible if the city/TTC refuses to submit to Queen's Park's order. A merger of all GTA transit agencies into GO Transit is entirely possible if desired. They already banned the city/TTC from working on any subway expansion without permission!

How is it that the province has given Metrolinx so much power without any checks and balances whatsoever? Does anyone else see anything fundamentally wrong with this?

 

[tmlittle]

How is it that the province has given Metrolinx so much power without any checks and balances whatsoever? Does anyone else see anything fundamentally wrong with this?

Welcome to Ontario. This place sucks.

 

[Steve X]

How is it that the province has given Metrolinx so much power without any checks and balances whatsoever? Does anyone else see anything fundamentally wrong with this?

It's how our Constitution is set up. Cities have no rights on their own. They exist cause the province can't manage local issues thus they drew boundaries and delegated that task to a bunch of people known as the mayor and councillors. Any province can change how things right in their cities. In BC, they have BC transit as the province doesn't allow for city operated transit agencies.

ML is just Queen's parks puppet. It just sounds better than saying MTO is running our transit.

The only way Toronto can be freed from Queen's park is to become it's own province.

 

[Johnny Au]

The Toronto Charter City is a step in the right direction.

The ultimate goal, however, is for Toronto to be its own province.

Ontario can move its capital city to North Bay or wherever, but not Toronto.