Families in Toronto

[androiduk]

Me too - though of two recent gay families settling on my street one has since adopted, and I suspect the other two men are considering it.

Whenever I walk down Church St. with my 2 little girls they're fawned over and treated like rock stars by the boys outside Timothy's. I'm sure many of them would like to raise a child.

 

[Edward Skira]

I've been in my building for 12 years. In the early days we were the youngest folks in the building and there we only a few kids. In the last three years we added two kids and during the last 2 years at least 10 babies have shown up. There's even a mommy group that has been set up. And our neighbour is expecting in February. I guess as the older folks have moved on it has given room for younger folks to move in.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Interesting that Lady Lourdes is a great school, too, because...

^^We had the choice of sending our kids to a school in Yorkville or St. Jamestown (Catholic). We chose St. Jamestown and after 2 years we've never regretted that decision. The school is highly security conscious, the values are solid, there's a great ethnic and income mix and nothing is taken for granted. The staff are very pleasant and relaxed (a reflection of the students) and their are dozens of volunteers that take care of the childrens needs. The school is pretty well across the street from an apt. building that has at least 10 crack dens inside but I wouldn't even consider moving my kids, they will be their until grade 8. A friend down the street chose the Yorkville school and now regrets it, describing it as a 'tough' school full of spoiled brats.

... our kids have been at Sacre Coeur (Linden at Sherbourne, French Catholic) for their whole lives, and its a great school, too. If you have at least one French-speaking parent in the family and want to have the kids learn in French, I'd highly recommend it.

 

[UserNameToronto]

... our kids have been at Sacre Coeur (Linden at Sherbourne, French Catholic) for their whole lives, and its a great school, too. If you have at least one French-speaking parent in the family and want to have the kids learn in French, I'd highly recommend it.

Are they really sticky on that? I've been looking at Gabrielle-Roy at Pembroke & Shuter, planning for enrollment in c2015-6.

I can only swear in French, and my family are former Anglo Montrealers.

 

[nfitz]

Looking at the map that was published in the Star showing the potential school, none of it was in the core. This one from the Globe looks similiar - http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ol-closings-are-fait-accompli/article1339407/

Mostly Scarborough, a cluster west of York University, and a cluster in the Eglinton/Dufferin/Bathurst area.

I'm in the Gerrard/Woodbine area ... and the number of kids around here always amazes me. You can't walk down the sidewalks in the daytime without dodging strollers. Lots of young families - we have a 2-year old, and I could toss stones off the back deck and hit at least 3 other houses with young ones ... probably more.

 

[PukeGreen]

My downtown condo building has quite a few kids in it, but I understand this is the exception. New parents with babies or toddlers do the condo thing, then as the kid grows and needs more space, they move to a house, which usually means the suburbs for most "working families". Either that, or kid number two comes along and three bedroom condos are pretty much unheard of.

It is a sad phenomenon and I've seen it first hand. Friends of mine who love the city, who are urbanites at heart, who want to stay and make it work but realize quite early on that it's impossible. And off to the suburbs they go, complete with multiple cars and hour-long commutes, to the detriment of themselves, the environment, and society as a whole.

There are two distinct reasons: one is cost per square foot. Kids definitely need space. The other is more subtle and somewhat alarming, and its the blind myth of cities as dirty and dangerous, and suburbs as clean and wholesome. It's funny how even the most liberal minded who revel in the diversity of the city as 20-somethings suddenly balk at the thought of raising a kid in that environment -- or, if they don't, the grandparents do and apply the powers of the guilt-trip. Underlying all this is a hesitation to send their kids to a school attended by mostly immigrants and ESL students. They fear their kids will get a second rate education because of it. This is a touchy subject, though, so I suspect many who are worried about this won't voice it; they'll use the cost excuse instead.

We definitely need more larger units in condos, or more units that can be "joined" through internal expansion, and perhaps some direct or indirect way of easing the financial burden for families in cities. But in addition to that, there also needs to be a change of mindset in society, so that people can see the benefits of raising kids in a more vibrant and diverse environment.

 

[kettal]

The other is more subtle and somewhat alarming, and its the blind myth of cities as dirty and dangerous, and suburbs as clean and wholesome. It's funny how even the most liberal minded who revel in the diversity of the city as 20-somethings suddenly balk at the thought of raising a kid in that environment -- or, if they don't, the grandparents do and apply the powers of the guilt-trip. Underlying all this is a hesitation to send their kids to a school attended by mostly immigrants and ESL students. They fear their kids will get a second rate education because of it. This is a touchy subject, though, so I suspect many who are worried about this won't voice it; they'll use the cost excuse instead.

Well, it wasn't too long ago that Yonge Street was best known for it's porn shops, and New York City was crime central, but times have changed.

 

[GraphicMatt]

I think there's a pervasive myth that kids need a big backyard, too, even though when I was a kid in the suburbs we never really used ours.

 

[Whoaccio]

I think there's a pervasive myth that kids need a big backyard, too, even though when I was a kid in the suburbs we never really used ours.

I think it's less a case of actively seeking out a backyard "for the kids to play ball in", or whatever, and more a case of people putting something like this and this side by side and wondering why they should settle for less than half the living space for the same price.

EDIT: Just to preempt, I know there are reasons why people would make that tradeoff. Just that there is a ton of evidence that as people get older/have kids, those reasons become less and less relevant. The "Living Downtown" survey illustrates this nicely. Reasons like "access to entertainment/nightlife", the third most prevalent reason why people live downtown, isn't very applicable to some guy with 3 kids.

 

[Red Mosquito]

I think there's a pervasive myth that kids need a big backyard, too, even though when I was a kid in the suburbs we never really used ours.

I agree. I grew up in the burbs, and the space outside in my view was just desolate and bleak! Even the local parks were nothing more than glorified brown field, which was flooded most of the time. All I wanted was a little space to call my own, which i had in my small bedroom.

I would of loved to grow up downtown, or in one of the ajoining areas. So much to do and see as a kid. I allways wanted to go to school on the island. How many kids get to take a boat to school.

I think its more than possible for one child families to live downtown, your child will thank you for it later. However for multiple child families, it is a bit of a stretch, and can understand why they need to move to the burbs.

 

[Red Mosquito]

You don't see the problem with monoculture? Should there also be a district for seniors?

I didnt mention anything about seniors, but yes I do see the demographic challenges of a monoculture. I realize that people have the right to live wherever they want, and my comment was a little tounge and cheek.

But I really do love living downtown with people who share the same outlook on urban living as I do. And you have got to admit, if you have ever been on the subway at about 3:45pm with a bunch of rowdy teenagers, or been on an airplane with 3 screaming babies as I was recently, Its nice to have a downtown area with mostly urban professionals to have fun with.

 

[kettal]

Looking at the map that was published in the Star showing the potential school, none of it was in the core. This one from the Globe looks similiar - http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ol-closings-are-fait-accompli/article1339407/

Mostly Scarborough, a cluster west of York University, and a cluster in the Eglinton/Dufferin/Bathurst area.

So much for the unaffordable housing theory, these are some of the more affordable neighbourhoods in town.

 

[Johnzz]

there also needs to be a change of mindset in society, so that people can see the benefits of raising kids in a more vibrant and diverse environment.

I think this will happen, but it takes time...

In addition, if energy cost continue higher, the burbs will no longer look as cheap.

 

[syn]

I didnt mention anything about seniors, but yes I do see the demographic challenges of a monoculture. I realize that people have the right to live wherever they want, and my comment was a little tounge and cheek.

But I really do love living downtown with people who share the same outlook on urban living as I do. And you have got to admit, if you have ever been on the subway at about 3:45pm with a bunch of rowdy teenagers, or been on an airplane with 3 screaming babies as I was recently, Its nice to have a downtown area with mostly urban professionals to have fun with.

I have no problem with teenagers on the subway or babies for that matter.

It's hard to believe how intolerant people can be towards kids. Areas with urban professionals will always be found in the city...and they're great. I don't see why there can't be great areas for families too. There should be room for everyone.

 

[greenleaf]

November 4 meeting

Kettal - I plan to attend this meeting. Others here may be interested too.

Perhaps further conversation in this thread will result in some ideas to bring to the meeting!


A Public Meeting regarding this Proposal to Amend the Official Plan
to Encourage the Development of Dwelling Units for Households with Children

Date: November 4, 2009
Time: 10:15 a.m. or as soon as possible thereafter
Place: City Hall, Committee Room 1, 2nd Floor
100 Queen Street West, Toronto

Detailed information regarding the proposal, including background information and material and a copy
of the proposed Official Plan Amendment may be obtained by contacting either of the following planners:

David Spence, Deanna Chorney City Planning Division
416-392-8124 416-392-0421 Metro Hall
dspence@toronto.ca dchorney@toronto.ca 55 John Street, 23rd Floor
Toronto, ON M5V 3C6
Fax: 416-397-4080

A copy of the report will be available by October 27, 2009 on the City’s web site at
www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2009/agendas/pg.htm

If you wish to address the Planning and Growth Management Committee or to submit written comments
please notify the City Clerk:

Merle MacDonald, Administrator, Planning and Growth Management Committee,
Toronto City Hall, 100 Queen Street West, 10th Floor, West Tower, Toronto, ON M5H 2N2
416-392-7340 or by fax: (416) 392-1879 or by e-mail to pgmc@toronto.ca