Ex-Ontario AG Bryant questioned in death of cyclist

[nfitz]

One thing that you guys seem to be ignoring is that Bryant was the one who initiated the physical contact and violence.

What an interesting comment that is in direct contradiction of what the prosecuter concluded. There is no evidence or suggestion that Bryant initiated the violence. The conclusion was that the inital contact was minor and accidental ... though perhaps a drunk and stoned criminal with a history of violence might assume otherwise ...

Perhaps you have evidence that wasn't submitted to the court?

 

[ShonTron]

Agreed with "Hipster" "Duck" here.

Marcus Gee has been a surprisingly good Toronto columnist for the Globe and Mail, better, I would say, then the last 2 years of John Barber's helm (though I think Barber was great up to a few years ago, when he got stuck in the "truthiness" rut and spouting nonsense.

I did not like Gee's political leanings though in his earlier national column, but he was at least intelligent, almost like a Canadian David Brooks.

His column is bang on. Yes, the bike lobby could use poster children to drive the point home, but Sheppard is a terrible example. I also think that the figurehead of the (very loosely organized) bike union is out to lunch. I also think that while imperfect, the decision not to bring Byrant to trial was probably the best of a poor selection of choices.

---

I stop for all traffic lights while on a bike and do hand signals when on roadways (just the turn signals), but I don't come to a full stop at many stop signs, though I prepare to stop at all of them (a stop sign approaching a major street is certainly one that I will stop at, given the cross traffic and potential danger of coasting in). But 4-way stops are often used (despite the official intentions) as traffic calming tools to slow down cars, and they have replaced yield signs when they were common when one minor street met another because of idiot motorists. It's common sense without losing all momentum when it is unnecessary.

More yield signs, please, and yes to the Idaho stop.

 

[vic]

What an interesting comment that is in direct contradiction of what the prosecuter concluded. There is no evidence or suggestion that Bryant initiated the violence. The conclusion was that the inital contact was minor and accidental ... though perhaps a drunk and stoned criminal with a history of violence might assume otherwise ...

Perhaps you have evidence that wasn't submitted to the court?

True, the courts and lawyers certainly have seen more evidence than me. But you need to watch the video footage, if you haven't already:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFISP_PrhFo

Even the descriptions in the press show that the physical altercation was started by Bryant. Quote from the Star article:

Bryant came to a red light between Bay St. and Avenue Rd., where traffic had narrowed to a single lane both ways because of construction. Sheppard, Bryant told investigators, cycled past his car on the driver’s side and then cut in front of the vehicle, stopping directly in front of the Saab.

Bryant hit the brakes and the car stalled. Attempts to get the car started again caused it to lurch forward. There appeared to be no contact between the car and Sheppard’s bike but the cyclist was livid and he was already yelling at Bryant.

He told police afterward he was in a state of panic when, restarting the vehicle, it accelerated unintentionally, shockingly, causing Sheppard to land on the hood. Bryant hit the brakes. Only 2.5 seconds elapsed from the time the vehicle started its forward motion and when it came to a halt, having travelled a total of about 30 feet. At this point, Sheppard was not seriously injured, said Peck.

As Bryant tried to reverse the car and go around the bicycle, Sheppard tossed a backpack that contained a heavy U-shaped lock at either the hood or windshield, and then jumped on the car as Bryant — fearing that he and his wife would be attacked — tried driving away. Sheppard hung on.

I mean really....Bryant has to have some responsibility in this. Can't threaten someone with your car, then hit him (driving 30 feet down the road!) then kill the guy after he fights back.

 

[kettal]

I don't find Bambrick's quotes to be objectionable, and I say this as a member of Toronto Cyclists Union who believes acquitting Bryant was the right move. The media outlets all phoned her up for her opinion, what did you expect her to say?

 

[picard102]

I mean really....Bryant has to have some responsibility in this. Can't threaten someone with your car, then hit him (driving 30 feet down the road!) then kill the guy after he fights back.

Bryant didn't kill Sheppard. Sheppard killed Sheppard.
Serriously, does anyone in their right mind think it's a good and prudent idea to grab on to a car and hold on to it as it speeds away? This is almost Darwin award shit.

 

[Admiral Beez]

He's a pushy, type-A guy who refused to de-escalate the situation.

Are all of us this wimpy? He was defending himself and his wife. If Sheppard had tried this in the States, he likely would have been shot dead on the spot. I want pushy, type-A folks who act and get things done, not de-escalators.

 

[nfitz]

True, the courts and lawyers certainly have seen more evidence than me. But you need to watch the video footage, if you haven't already:

That's the same video we were discussing here a few months ago. It's pretty inconclusive in itself. The first thing that is clear though that Sheppard appears to cut in front of a moving vehicle and come to a complete stop. That in itself seems odd.

Even the descriptions in the press show that the physical altercation was started by Bryant. Quote from the Star article:

I'm not seeing any indication at all that the physical altercation was started by Bryant in that article; that seems to be a misrepresentation. Before there was any physical contact between the parties "the cyclist was livid and he was already yelling at Bryant" and Bryant was "in a state of panic". Clearly the violent altercation was initiated by Sheppard. You quote the article for showing that Bryant started it ... but the article clearly puts the blame on Sheppard's death on Sheppard saying "the devil inside him on the night of Aug. 31, 2009, that caused his death — and not the man who was once Ontario’s attorney general", and the "cyclist was the provocateur".

I mean really....Bryant has to have some responsibility in this.

Bryant has admitted to some responsibility in this. In my mind, he has been surprisingly charitable - more so that I would have been after having been violently attacked. The question before the courts however, is if he had any criminal responsibility - and the answer to that question is clearly that he didn't. The article you referenced clearly states this saying "the alarmed driver’s response was understandable rather than criminal."

Can't threaten someone with your car, then hit him (driving 30 feet down the road!) then kill the guy after he fights back.

There is no indication that this is what happened; you seem to be misrepresenting what you have read. I admit, that if was the only incident of it's type, then I might have some doubt about Bryant's motives ... but the article also tells us that there were 6 other similar incidents involving Sheppard; 4 the same month, and one earlier that evening! I can't imagine anything ever justifying Sheppard doing what he was doing in these pictures once; let alone on a frequent basis!

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

What? I thought you said that the Bike Union was measured in their response? Now you're conceding that it was a political move to rally their emotionally-charged constituency.

If you read my initial post on the subject of the Bike Union, you will note that I didn't say anything about their response to the withdrawal of Bryant's charges. I was merely noting that the Bike Union's public pronouncements have tended to be rather moderate and thus I feel the OCAP analogy is incorrect.

Are all of us this wimpy? He was defending himself and his wife. If Sheppard had tried this in the States, he likely would have been shot dead on the spot. I want pushy, type-A folks who act and get things done, not de-escalators.

Being calm under pressure and not flying off the handle is "wimpy"? Is that really your argument?

While the "defending his wife" thing is partially true (and is the excuse that 100% of people would legitimately cite in similar circumstances), it is also clear that his actions were as motivated by ego as by preservation. The guilt and anguish Bryant feels about the indicent are manifestations of the blood on his hands.

Why is it relevant that Sheppard would probably have been shot in the US?

Why is everyone so anxious to make this issue black-and-white?

 

[nfitz]

it is also clear that his actions were as motivated by ego as by preservation.

How is that possibly clear? You weren't there, you don't know what was in his head. If a very violent person jumped into one's car, and grabbed the steering wheel while one was trying to get away from him then I don't think one would be motivated by ego, but by fear and terror. Your conclusion is without any basis or justification.

Why is everyone so anxious to make this issue black-and-white?

Why are so many people so quick to vilify Bryant - who is the victim here. It's not like he pulled out a gun.

And why isn't anyone investigating the police? They let a person who by various accounts was too drunk to cycle, ride away. Heck, they encouraged it. Had they actually decided to enforce the laws about drunk driving, then no one would have died that night (though given Sheppard's escalating violent and frequent attacks on moving vehicles, then surely there would have been one or more deaths sooner or later).

 

[tkip]

This is almost Darwin award shit.

I found this absolutely hilarious.

I still cannot believe that people are trying to somehow pin Sheppard's death on Byrant instead of Sheppard himself. The man was reckless and stupid and a walking timebomb of a menace. I mean, come on. Sheppard killed himself with his antics and the most Byrant is guilty of is panicking and trying to get away from a crazed lunactic.

End of story......

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

How is that possibly clear? You weren't there, you don't know what was in his head. If a very violent person jumped into one's car, and grabbed the steering wheel while one was trying to get away from him then I don't think one would be motivated by ego, but by fear and terror. Your conclusion is without any basis or justification.

You have no basis or justification to say that my conclusion is wihout any basis or justification. Perhaps I have inside information. Or, perhaps I have seen him speak about the incident. Perhaps I was there. Perhaps it is my opinion. Why is your opinion any more valid than mine?

Why are so many people so quick to vilify Bryant - who is the victim here. It's not like he pulled out a gun.

That's half the question I was asking. Do you have an answer? It seems that you are just another person who wants to see this as a black-and-white issue. Thanks for underlining my point.

And why isn't anyone investigating the police? They let a person who by various accounts was too drunk to cycle, ride away. Heck, they encouraged it. Had they actually decided to enforce the laws about drunk driving, then no one would have died that night (though given Sheppard's escalating violent and frequent attacks on moving vehicles, then surely there would have been one or more deaths sooner or later).

Now you're getting it. Lots of sadness and blame to go around here. Bravo for partially removing your blinders.

 

[tkip]

Again...

While there are questions as to why Sheppard was allowed to roam the streets and terrorize people, the fact remains that Sheppard was a menace and hunted people. He targeted Byrant.

Byrant in his attempt to get away from a insane maniac who was attempting to crawl into his through the window, panicked and tried to get away and Sheppard was knocked off the vechicle and then died from the impact. People need to stop trying to turn Sheppard into a misunderstood, tragic figure and accept him for what he was. A violent psychopath.

 

[AGTO]

Byrant in his attempt to get away from a insane maniac who was attempting to crawl into his through the window, panicked and tried to get away and Sheppard was knocked off the vechicle and then died from the impact.

AGAIN,

I guess you missed the part where 'byrant' tried to run him over.

 

[picard102]

AGAIN,

I guess you missed the part where 'byrant' tried to run him over.

No such thing happend.

 

[nfitz]

You have no basis or justification to say that my conclusion is wihout any basis or justification. Perhaps I have inside information. Or, perhaps I have seen him speak about the incident. Perhaps I was there. Perhaps it is my opinion. Why is your opinion any more valid than mine?

Fair enough; I do admit I just assumed you were talking out of your imagination. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. What do you know that I don't?

Now you're getting it. Lots of sadness and blame to go around here. Bravo for partially removing your blinders.

Lots of sadness and blame ... sure. I think one can blame Bryant ... but not criminally. And on the other hand, he had no idea just how far Sheppard would go. How would he have known, for example, if Sheppard would pull out a knife or not? In some ways, driving away seemed like the safest option. Once Sheppard jumped onto the car, and grabbed the steering wheel ... is calmly stopping the car and chatting about it the safest option? In retrospect, perhaps ... in a split-second panic ... I don't know what I would have done.