Embassies in Syria torched

[spasongs]

True you can't paint all, but,

I would love to see some massive demos for civility etc, anti terror etc, you name it.

 

[Darkstar416]

These cartoons (the ones that I have seen) did not cross the line of "hate speech" -- at least under Canadian law.

I never thought I'd agree with Carcuden, but I do here!

So much for the religion of peace, as Muslims continue to tell us they truly are.

So the billion or so muslims of the world aren't peaceful people? If so, then your quote is just as deplorable as the actions of those who are painting entire countries (and continents) as being against them based on the drawings of one lone cartoonist.

 

[Abeja de Almirante]

I sure hope you're not holding all Muslims responsible for the actions of the rioters.

So the billion or so muslims of the world aren't peaceful people?

So where are they? Where are the peaceful demands that the rioters stand down?

No I'm not saying or implying that Muslims are as a group violent. But I'd like a demonstration that the religion is one of peace, maybe just one Muslim political leader to stand up at the UN or for CNN or whatever to say enough is enough, we're a peaceful people, we've made our point, let's go home.

 

[dan e 1980]

i could have swore that when i was watching CNN, some leaders said sorry to denmark.

peaceful demands that rioters stand down? have you ever seen any peaceful demonstrations at european soccer roits demanding that the rioters stop? there is good reason why the peaceful majority keeps quiet. they're scared.

 

[Abeja de Almirante]

i could have swore that when i was watching CNN, some leaders said sorry to denmark.

That's progress, I'm sorry I missed that in the news.

The peaceful majority does not always stay silent. In India Ghandi's peaceful resistance movement push the British out, with the British not having any idea how to react with tens of thousands of peaceful protestors marching towards them, never raising a hand or throwing a stone. In the 1960s Martin Luther King brought tens of thousands of people to Washington DC to protest racism without any calls to violence. History is loaded with such examples.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Abeja

No I'm not saying or implying that Muslims are as a group violent. But I'd like a demonstration that the religion is one of peace, maybe just one Muslim political leader to stand up at the UN or for CNN or whatever to say enough is enough, we're a peaceful people, we've made our point, let's go home.

History is littered with examples of violence committed in the name of religion. So, because of Sectarian violence in Northern Ireland, I shall brand both Catholicism and Protestantism as contrary to the ideals of "religions of peace"?

As to the matter of "standing up", the last time I've checked, quite a few of the moderate Muslim leaders have already urged calm, for the record. If you find it too difficult to track down via CNN, I am sure there alternate media sources at your disposal.

AoD

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

So much for the religion of peace, as Muslims continue to tell us they truly are.

No I'm not saying or implying that Muslims are as a group violent.

Which one is it, exactly?

AoD

 

[Abeja de Almirante]

This phrase "religion of peace" is often applied to Islam, especially whenever there is a violent confrontation.

Your comments on Ireland are certainly valid. However, as a Judeo-Christian, I have rarely if ever, heard of this phrase "religion of peace" being applied to my faith. From Exodus to Masada, Gollaith to Gomera, to the destruction of Egypt's army, to an eye for an eye to Deuteronomy's [the Israelites] "utterly destroyed the men, women, and the little ones" leaving "none to remain."....to the Crusades and forced conversions of native peoples throughout the globe, I would hardly call Judeo-Christian religion one of peace. Instead it is one of violent retribution, sacrifice and coerced compliance.

History is littered with examples of violence committed in the name of religion.

Yes, but the difference is, that we continue to hear about Islam being a religion of peace, but we see corrupt dictatorships, abosolute monarchies, repression of democracy and women's rights, stonings, violent riots, etc... I think it's time for Islam to recognise, as much of the west already has, that they are, like most religions, based on violence, revenge and coercion.

What makes a large difference between Judeo-Christians and Muslims though is that a JC can leave his religion at home and seperate. This is not possible AFAIK for Muslims, either you are devout or you're not Muslim. Thus, North American who are Judeo-Christains can look at the "violence towards your enemy" in the Bible and discount it in today's pluralistic, free and western times, whereas, I'm not convinced that Muslims are permitted this interpreative freedom.

 

[ganjavih]

What makes a large difference between Judeo-Christians and Muslims though is that a JC can leave his religion at home and seperate. This is not possible AFAIK for Muslims, either you are devout or you're not Muslim.

I highly doubt all 1 billion Muslims are "devout".

Thus, North American who are Judeo-Christains can look at the "violence towards your enemy" in the Bible and discount it in today's pluralistic, free and western times, whereas, I'm not convinced that Muslims are permitted this interpreative freedom.

I think the key is the political environment. Unfortunately, most Muslims live in closed corrupt dictatorships and never learn what pluralistic and free mean.

I don't think there's anything inherently too different about Islam. If Jews and Christians actually followed the Bible literally, they'd be executing homosexuals and adulterers too.

 

[allabootmatt]

A quick comment:

I have long said that, for example, the Israeli presence in the Palestinian territories would have been over years ago if the Palestinians had staged mass peaceful demonstrations, sit-ins, labor strikes and hunger strikes, etc. etc. The fact is that the West (of which Israel is absiolutely a part) pays attention to conscience. Look at the colonial experience in India, or the civil-rights struggle in the USA. That is how you get somewhere. Violence is almsot always counter-productive in these 'liberation' struggles, and only allows oppressors to justify their oppression for the sake of security.

The fact that there doesn't seem to be a tradition of non-violent political struggle in contemporary Islam at least seems to me to be the biggest reason for the total failure of Muslims to win the political battles they've tried to.

 

[Abeja de Almirante]

I have long said that, for example, the Israeli presence in the Palestinian territories would have been over years ago if the Palestinians had staged mass peaceful demonstrations, sit-ins, labor strikes and hunger strikes, etc. etc.

I agree 100%. I can just imagine the CNN reporters on the scene...."here we have 50,000 Palestinian women, men and children walking silently, peacefully (not zombie-like, just determined)towards the Israeli checkpoint. The Israeli soldiers demand that the Palestinians stop, but they continue. The Israeli soldiers strike the front rank of Palestinians, they fall, others stop to help them, while the crowd continues forward. The Israeli soldiers begin to fire upon the crowd, it's chaos, men, women and children are hurt...the crowd continues to walk, the Israelis withdraw to the next checkpoint. CNN shows the masacre to the American public...with the viewers filled with rage, and perhaps reminded of their own struggle against the British.

There was an Irish family of sisters that apparently IIRC brought the IRA's American funding to its knees by peacefully protesting to the US public their brother's murder. Peacful protest can do amazing things against a democratically elected oppressor.

 

[spasongs]

All I know is that Countries as well as individuals are now blaming a country for what a newspaper did. If this does not show how absolutely stupid these people(religious fanatics) are then I don't know what does.

After countless bombings, beheadings, attacks, shootings, fatwas and savaging etc etc etc,all in the name of Islam, where are the ****ing mass crowds protesting how their religion has been hijacked by fanatics??? Where is the outrage regarding these things? These very things that make the rest of the world look on the innocent muslim as savages, as murderers, suicide bombers, what ever. WHERE?!!

Exactly .

Till 50,000 protesters march through the streets of X with signs saying " We do not condone Violence" " Al Quaeda is not Islam" etc then things will only get worse. The gulf is widening all the time
Printing the cartoon screams "why" , but the silence in the other side is deafening

 

[ganjavih]

I have long said that, for example, the Israeli presence in the Palestinian territories would have been over years ago if the Palestinians had staged mass peaceful demonstrations

I disagree. Just as there are radical troublemakers on the Palestinian side, there are radical troublemakers on the Israeli side who believe that all of the former Palestine is God's promised land to the Jews. Israeli leaders always have to tread carefully as too many concessions can lead to death threats from radical Jews.

 

[bizorky]

This phrase "religion of peace" is often applied to Islam, especially whenever there is a violent confrontation.

And Christianity has often defined itself as the faith of love. Yet history provides plenty of example that would appear to counter such a belief.

Religious slogans only work when actually practiced. So long as some people assume superiority or rightfulness on the basis of being religious, then we will continue to have these kinds of reactions.

 

[Abeja de Almirante]

And Christianity has often defined itself as the faith of love. Yet history provides plenty of example that would appear to counter such a belief.

I've already covered that angle; no one who knows their Bible or Judeo-Christian history would think that Christianity is the faith of love. It's a faith of violence towards your enemy, retribution and coerced compliance. Anyone who says Christianity is the faith of love is either a flower child hippie, or a follower of one of these new age churches that believe that all you have to be is a good person to win the end game; which if you know your Christianity is far from the truth.