SunriseChampion
Senior Member
Stop dreaming. This is Toronto! Subways "cost too much" and are "unwarranted".....or something.
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Eglinton-Crosstown Corridor Debate
- Thread starter Dan416
- Start date
Dan416
Senior Member
I don't think there's any point of a Queen subway at this point. I can't remember who, but someone always points out that its classified as a stable neighbourhood and if you can't intensify the development there, why build a subway there? I could see a King street subway, or a Dundas one.
BMO
Senior Member
so?...just because it's stable doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of trips generated along the route, I'm sure that most people shopping, going to the caffé or much music, don't live in the area, plus it would be close enough to the clubbing/entertainment district as well, not to mention the beaches in the east. most of bloor in the annex or danforth doesn't seem to be any denser than Queen.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
First priority should be the DRL to relieve the Bloor-Yonge interchange. However I certainly can see Queen being converted to a local (vs the DRL's more express station spacing) subway line in the far future (30 yrs?)
fanoftoronto
Active Member
Having a local DRL along Queen will not reduce crowding at Yonge-Bloor station by that much. The reason the DRL is a valid alternative for riders is because there are very few stations as opposed to the present numbers. Granted many people will use a local DRL as well but it will not bring as much relief as the present proposal.
Dan416
Senior Member
I don't think that's what Woodridge Heights was proposing. I understood it to mean a regular DRL (through the rail corridor/Union) and Queen being a separate local subway. Although I could be misinterpreting it as what I'd like to see.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
That's what I thought too. I'd see the Queen streetcar subway revived to an extent, and then have most of the rest of the route LRT-ized.
fanoftoronto
Active Member
My bad....thanks for correcting me
W. K. Lis
Superstar
I think that when the Queensway's streetcar right-of-way was built (after the Yonge HRT subway was built) in the late 1950's, it was to be in place for any extension of the Queen streetcar subway past Roncesvalles. As it turned out, it ended up orphaned, not directly connected to any subway or rapid transit. If the Queen streetcar subway was built, instead of the Bloor-Danforth HRT subway, the right-of-way and the streetcar (or LRT) subway would have been connected over the years. Today, the right-of-way could now end up as part the Lake Shore West LRT, if that ever happens.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
I learned something new today
Though I guess that does make sense, and while it's a shame that they ditched that idea, it's not still too late for such a thing to happen. As useful as a Roncesvales-wherever subway would be, I'd probably put the subway part of Queen between around Queen West and the Don, with the other parts just being full LRT (I think those were the original-original subway plans. That'd probably cut on costs and anger over congestion in the core, where aboveground speeds would probably be the slowest. I guess it wouldn't be as useful as it could have before, because there aren't as many other streetcar routes to interact with (actually, there are basically none,) but it'd function well as an Eglinton-type LRT.
Fresh Start
Banned
The obvious thing to do if ever to bolster the case for a true east-west subway south of Bloor, not just DRL, is whenever they're digging the tunnel bore for the DRL make it large enough such that it can accomodate a second set of tracks. These won't be service tracks for the initial DRL but actually rather preinstalled infrastructure for a Queen subway. Per this alignment conception the four innermost stations on both lines, say hypothetically: John/Wellington, Bay/Wellington, Church/Wellington and Sherbrourne/Front would be quad-tracked with two island platforms. The CBD Stn would also have two bay platforms connecting it to Union and King Stns. The eastbound tracks for both lines share the same platform area and vice-versa for the two westbound tracks. Beyond these points the DRL can wind its way through the innercity to connect to Bloor-Dufferin and Danforth-Pape (I choose Dufferin over Dundas West because its a busier interchange and denser area), while the Queen Street subway continues west along Wellington St to have stops at Cityplace, Fort York (Tecumseth, just west of Bathurst) and Strachan (King West Village) before entering the Weston-Galt. This leaves the stable neighbourhood of Queen West BIA unaffected by subway construction (expect for Queen/Peter where the DRL would channel through northwards) but the shortened 501 route length would make headways shorter, thus commutes faster.
However because this is an east-west Queen Line it turns west at Queen and Dufferin, with a stop prior at King/Atlantic. This is the stop for Liberty Villege and the CNE with underground streetcars extending from Exhibition Loop to terminate at this subway station. From Dufferin it runs west through Parkdale then elevated down the median of the Queensway (the existing streetcar ROW now housing the support columns for the guideway). After meeting a relocated Mimico GO Stn at Humber Loop the line terminates at Humber Bay Park one level up from a fare-paid streetcar loop west into southern Etobicoke. On the eastern front, the Queen Line cuts through King/Sumach (West Don Lands) before turning up and across Queen East to the Beaches. At Beech Avenue, a few blocks west of Neville Park Loop, the line veers northeastwards to terminate at Kingston Road and Victoria Park. Here it'd intercept the Kingston BRT which extends directly to Scarborough Town Ctr via UTSC and Centennial College.
However because this is an east-west Queen Line it turns west at Queen and Dufferin, with a stop prior at King/Atlantic. This is the stop for Liberty Villege and the CNE with underground streetcars extending from Exhibition Loop to terminate at this subway station. From Dufferin it runs west through Parkdale then elevated down the median of the Queensway (the existing streetcar ROW now housing the support columns for the guideway). After meeting a relocated Mimico GO Stn at Humber Loop the line terminates at Humber Bay Park one level up from a fare-paid streetcar loop west into southern Etobicoke. On the eastern front, the Queen Line cuts through King/Sumach (West Don Lands) before turning up and across Queen East to the Beaches. At Beech Avenue, a few blocks west of Neville Park Loop, the line veers northeastwards to terminate at Kingston Road and Victoria Park. Here it'd intercept the Kingston BRT which extends directly to Scarborough Town Ctr via UTSC and Centennial College.
nfitz
Superstar
It's cheaper to bore two separate tunnels than one now. If they wanted 4 tracks they'd want to bore 4 tunnels. Though at that point, if you really want 4 tracks, you want to use cut-and-cover.
Boring would be horrendously expensive. If New York City isn't building their new north-south subway with 4 tracks, why should we?
MisterF
Senior Member
A neighbourhood being stable doesn't make it unworthy of a subway line if the demand is there - redevelopment isn't necessary. Cities all over the world build subways through stable neighbourhoods. Rome is building a new line right through the middle of its historic core. It doesn't get much more stable than that.
Bureaucromancer
Active Member
When it comes to the DRL though, a route closer to the rail corridor, emphasizing service to the West Donlands and St. Lawrence areas opens up areas for development, still provides service to the Queen/King areas, is probably cheaper to build and integrates with GO much better than a route farther north.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
Because most of their subways are already 4 tracks, meaning they have enough infrastructure to handle peak-hour diversion. Toronto has no such capacity.