Eglinton-Crosstown Corridor Debate

[golodhendil]

Well to be fair, Boston isn't anywhere near your average American city. I'd say it's one of the most European cities in the US, and it's by far my favorite of every city in the US.

To be fair, the Blue line isn't a direct rail link to the airport; you still need to transfer onto a bus shuttle for a few minutes. But a 10 min trip from the Airport station direct to downtown is still much nicer than otherwise (the negative impact of Logan's proximity to downtown Boston is a whole another topic).

There had been plans to build a people mover from Airport station to the terminals, but modern Boston is also a city that always cries the lack of money. The Silver line does provide a direct link from downtown to the terminals, but this sorry excuse for rapid transit is nothing more than a bus that winds its way on the surface until it gets into an underground busway near downtown.

 

[Paleo]

How right you are on every point! And thank you for pointing out the embarrassing fact of Van's population vs ours! Indeed! And before someone says..well its only because of the Olympics that they have a skytrain link...no this was in the planning stages for tis extension years ago..and even if..so what..they are still ahead of us..Oh to be able to take the skytrain to work..and oh lets not forget all the foreign visitor's who..from their own cities and other cities in the world visited..are accustomed to some kind of a rail link! Poor Toronto! But that's just like us right..the underdogs..at least with condo towers we are stepping up to the world plate.....

It seems like every time the senior levels of government look to spend some money on Toronto, the cries of "freeloaders" ring out through the wilderness. A lot of political capital is needed for even the smallest thing. Look at all of the people on the internet crying about Queen's Park giving money for rolling stock replacements for the streetcar system and that's just routine upkeep.

I can imagine people complaining about electrification of the Lakeshore line too. Why not Barrie, why not Peterborough, why not... etc.

Hell, look at our "Toronto" Pan Am bid! It's spread out over the entire region so as not to offend everyone else.

 

[XBOYZ]

Boston

Correct on most points except I have to disagree (personally) with the silver line. I travel to Boston frequently and take the silver line bus direct from airport to World Trade Centre in approx 15 mins or less..thisbrings you right to the pier for the ferries over to the Cape (P-Town/Hyannis etc) I find it very easy..inexpensive and quick to use.Also the drivers are always friendly!

The Blue Line..as you say you have to take a shuttle from the terminal to the station (very fast though) then only 3 stops and you are downtown..it normally takes me all in all less than 30 mins to get from downtown to the terminal. I work for the airlines and frequently go just for the day as it is soo easy...and I wouldtake the blue or silver line over our 192 Rocket and long subway ride out to Kipling anyday. Of course....the ideal would be a monorail like Vancouver's Skytrain!
Cheers

 

[golodhendil]

Correct on most points except I have to disagree (personally) with the silver line. I travel to Boston frequently and take the silver line bus direct from airport to World Trade Centre in approx 15 mins or less..thisbrings you right to the pier for the ferries over to the Cape (P-Town/Hyannis etc) I find it very easy..inexpensive and quick to use.Also the drivers are always friendly!

The Blue Line..as you say you have to take a shuttle from the terminal to the station (very fast though) then only 3 stops and you are downtown..it normally takes me all in all less than 30 mins to get from downtown to the terminal. I work for the airlines and frequently go just for the day as it is soo easy...and I wouldtake the blue or silver line over our 192 Rocket and long subway ride out to Kipling anyday. Of course....the ideal would be a monorail like Vancouver's Skytrain!
Cheers

I agree that the Silver line is not all bad, and I do take it occasionally for events in the SBW even though it's a slower (10 mph) and bumpier (wheels on concrete) ride than even the Green line light rail subway. The main problem with Silver line is the set of traffic lights right outside the tunnel after WTC station, where the buses change power source from overhead trolleywires to diesel -- it had taken more than 5 min alone sitting at this spot. Problem for me also is that I don't live right downtown but further out on the Green line, so taking the Blue is more convenient for me; Silver is obviously more convenient for those on the Red line, and this will be the case until they build the Red-Blue connector (pipedream) or the billion-dollar "Little Dig" to connect Silver line to the Green line (all but dead).

 

[Second_in_pie]

^^ I was just thinking over that fact of Toronto transit planning! I guess that Go trains would take the place of things that don't follow roads, and maybe the Spadina-Eglinton West portion of the Spadina line. The TTC hasn't sunk that low that it has to use abandoned corridors for their lines. No, instead they've decided to spend billions of dollars for LRTs that are only a couple kilometers faster than the busses they replace.
Makes sense? No! But who cares?

I think this is what I'd like to ultimately see at Pearson:
- A rerouted Georgetown Line, so it starts diverting just east of Etobicoke North Station, then sorta sweeps just across the northern edge of the airport
-The original GO ALRT line, coming from MCC in the Southwest and going up along the rerouted Georgetown corridor to divert from it onto the hydro corridor
-An Eglinton Subway (or LRT, since subway is "undoable")
-Finch LRT coming in from the Woodbine Live!
-A RT/LRT/thing coming from Kipling Station up the hydro corridor, which could be an extension of a Dundas LRT (just for simplicity's sake.) It'd be good if this went straight up to Dixon road, then continuing west as a RT to serve the businesses until it hits the airport.

 

[Fresh Start]

I think this is what I'd like to ultimately see at Pearson:
- A rerouted Georgetown Line, so it starts diverting just east of Etobicoke North Station, then sorta sweeps just across the northern edge of the airport
-The original GO ALRT line, coming from MCC in the Southwest and going up along the rerouted Georgetown corridor to divert from it onto the hydro corridor
-An Eglinton Subway (or LRT, since subway is "undoable")
-Finch LRT coming in from the Woodbine Live!
-A RT/LRT/thing coming from Kipling Station up the hydro corridor, which could be an extension of a Dundas LRT (just for simplicity's sake.) It'd be good if this went straight up to Dixon road, then continuing west as a RT to serve the businesses until it hits the airport.

Just a few critiques on this.

Why would/should the Georgetown Line need to be diverted at all, when the Malton GO Stn is literally Pearson's stop already? It be far simpler and at less expense to simply extend the Pearson People-mover tram to the GO Stn and perhaps convert the line to bi-directional 2-track operation.

It seems to me as though the only sufficient transit mode for Eglinton-Crosstown is a service in a exclusive right-of-way straight across the corridor with minimal stops en route. I could accept Crosstown as an LRT line if the TPTB rethought the idea to make it road-median-through-mixed-traffic operation within Scarborough and Etobicoke. What's especially perplexing about their decision is that there's ample curbside vacant land (parking lots and public parklands) just sitting there idle where an elevated or open-trenched guideway could be. Were the whole route private and the number of stops reduced to only major cross-streets (30 total), a crosstown commute may be under an hour from Kennedy to the airport with speeds of up to 40 kph permitable along the ROW. Alas, that's what could've been.

On the other points, I don't think there's high enough ridership demand to sustain all these low-density suburban LRT lines. But implementation of more express bus routes may build up a corridor's desirability to the point LRT will then be warranted. Building them now just subtracts money from other transit projects that are more desperately needed, like the DRL.

 

[officedweller]

WRT building a guideway/roadbed above/through a busy expressway/corridor:

T...........oo costly and traffic disruption

The push launch system of construction could be used if necessary to maintain traffic below.

i.e. The Millau Viaduct in France used the push-launch system (the roadbed is pushed across the tops of the columns (both the permanent ones and temporary ones) - and the Coast Meridian Overpass in Port Coquitlam, BC is using it to build a roadway over an active rail yard - pictured below.

See pics here:

http://www.portcoquitlam.ca/Discove...dian_Overpass_Project/Construction_Photos.htm

The structure is assembled at the right of the pic and pushed across the columns to the left.

July 16th, 2009:

August 18th, 2009:

 

[EnviroTO]

What a disappointment. In the future when people see the Finch West LRT going to Don Mills, the stubway running as subway and Sheppard West as LRT, SRT as some unique technology, and the Eglinton LRT taking some crazy route to the airport with a stop at the end of the runway while the BRT avoids the hydro corridor that goes straight to Kennedy... people are going to wonder what was in Toronto's water when this was all planned.

 

[Dan416]

Metrolinx was supposed to avoid all this crap planning. Which is why I regard Metrolinx as a failure when it comes to local projects. On the GO side their planning is consistent as its always been. But all the local stuff is planned by the cities and Toronto especially seems inept at transit projects these days.

 

[Second_in_pie]

^^ I totally agree. Metrolinx got so, so lazy when they did their RTP that it's just disgusts me. They changed absolutely nothing to the MO2020 plan, yet there are glaringly obvious flaws to it that would otherwise compromise their regional plan, but they do nothing about it!

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

I think the problem with Transit City is that LRTs are getting in the way of much needed subways. LRTs in parts of the city are a great idea; but the I think the city has this notion in their head that its cheap and easy to build and they can sell it as a "European way" of travel and everyone is aboard.

 

[CodeMonkey]

lol

 

[gweed123]

This has already been brought up in the Mayor Miller thread, but is there a way to start a petition to have the plans for the Eglinton Crosstown changed so that the central portion is an HRT subway from Jane to Don Mills, and then the remaining portion (Jane to Pearson/Mississauga BRT, and Don Mills to Kennedy) be BRT? The extremities of the line fall well within the range of BRT, and would be easier to upgrade in the future.

 

[GenerationW]

Anyone can start a petition but it likely won't do any good. The best bet to change things at this point is via next year's election, and that means asking questions to know where each candidate stands -- but just the ones who have a chance of winning .

In the meantime, write your councilor and build a dialogue. That's what I'm trying to do. Also wouldn't hurt to connect with your MPP and maybe even your MP.

 

[jwill]

Will a central subway with BRT ends really be better?

The central section is already being built to HSR standards (so they say). So converting it in the future will not cost very much. What your plan does is force a transfer for all the BRT passengers who can take the LRT all the way to YUS under the current plan.

So, HRT may have a higher capacity, but the extra transfer will likely make the trip a longer one for anybody past Keele or Don Mills.