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Eaton Centre IV (Cadillac Fairview, 1 million sf office space)

There's no "new" information in that presentation, it's the same rumour that's been floating around for years. I know I mentioned it last summer:

whatever said:
Awhile ago I heard that there were plans being tossed around about an additional tower being added to the complex. The $48M food court might make more sense if considered against the potential for a new $500M tower. Apparently there were structural provisions in the original mall design to allow for it to go somewhere around the south-east corner of the mall (above the Sport Chek), so perhaps the thinking is that redoing the north food court will allow them to gut the south food court, creating some breathing room to stage the new tower construction
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What I've heard all along is that the Sport Chek was in the way, and that the historic building would be incorporated into any new design. Not sure if that means that the historic building is being facadectomized and the tower goes directly above it, or if the historic building just gets rejigged to become the lobby of a new building that sits on top of the parkade.

I don't think this is any closer to moving ahead than it was yesterday, or last week, or last summer. I think whoever put the presentation together probably reads this forum, and they just included one of the rumours that some faceless poster put up.
 
pw20 said:
I sort of agree with Taal - in terms of Cadillac Fairview's portfolio - 156 Front is closer to Union Station and would seemingly be an easier sell in terms of office space - PLUS has the benefit of being attached to a residential project as well.

But who knows - this project may be easier and cheaper to get off the ground depending on what's already been built (ie the foundation).
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I fail to see how the Eaton Centre site could be anything other than highly desireable and by almost any metrics imaginable.
 
Tewder said:
I fail to see how the Eaton Centre site could be anything other than highly desireable and by almost any metrics imaginable.
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Transportation, its as simple as that, in an ideal world if you could control the location of your office, regardless of all other factors, you would no doubt chose somewhere in the vicinity of Union station. Again, I recall several tenants / developers citing this for the movement toward the 'south core' ... of course the other big reason is there is land available here to develop.

I'm not saying the Eaton Center isn't desirable btw, just that it is a little less desirable.

But here's something else to consider:
The 250, Toronto Eaton Centre, is about 30% vacant ! It has been for the last 6 months or so. I do believe there was a relocation to the south core.
http://www.realinsite.com/index.php?page=searchengine&building_name=Eaton&locationc=&searchbyabldgbtn=Find+Buildings

Anyway, my argument is along these lines, I can only foresee so much new demand for offices in the next 5 years or so, and the amount of space I envision being required isn't that high. So only a couple of these proposals will likely start anytime soon, this seems to be the most impractical of them all. With BA2 being the most likely in my books.

Lastly, and this was mentioned above ... this report doesn't look very professional in nature ... I think anyone would be hard pressed to argue otherwise ...
It seems like some real estate company trying to attract investors to Toronto.


Like always, I'd love to be wrong ...
 
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taal said:
Well I'd love to be wrong here :)
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You will be, you just have to be patient :).
They're not all going to break ground this year.

I believe the EC is to go right on top of the parkade.

pw20 said:
I sort of agree with Taal - in terms of Cadillac Fairview's portfolio - 156 Front is closer to Union Station and would seemingly be an easier sell in terms of office space - PLUS has the benefit of being attached to a residential project as well.
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There are several business interest that want a Yonge street presence hence why i see EC being an easier sell then 156 Front.
 
Thanos said:
There are several business interest that want a Yonge street presence hence why i see EC being an easier sell then 156 Front.
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This is based on what exactly ? i.e. 'several business interest' what business interest and who would have these interests ?


One thing I'd like to add. What can spur new office construction (even in times when very little is taking place) is institutional development, namely, health care and education. If you step back 10 years there was a big period of time when very little office construction took place downtown, but even during this time, the universes / health system had massive expansion.

But I don't imagine you'd see a lot of interest from these at this location. Clearly it seems ryerson had a little interest.
 
From what I've been hearing by friends in the financial and retail industry there are plans to clean up Yonge street and developers and CF especially are trying to cash in on this.
 
I think we’re all overlooking a MAJOR change in the structure and functioning of this city.

Fifteen years ago I worked for a major retailer with offices downtown. That retailer was looking to move to make room for additional staff as the company was growing fast. It was determined that they should relocate closer to the suburbs because that was where the employees and future brain trust were going.

That is no longer the case.

Downtown is where the educated and upwardly mobile are going to be now and certainly more so in the future. This condo boom is far more than just a change to our skyline, it’s a major shift in the dynamics of this city – and for sure office space that was once destined for the subursbs will now be more focused on locating downtown.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
FYI, Ryerson has moved quite a bit of their admin spaces to 1 Dundas (aka 250 Yonge).
AoD
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AOD - 250 Yonge Street is the building almost across from Shuter Street - definitely not the same (or aka) 1 Dundas. If I recall correctly, 1 Dundas was built at the time of the original Eaton Centre construction, or shortly thereafter - as was the Cadillac Fairview tower on Queen Street. The 250 Yonge Street building came later, in 1991.

Eatons had offices in 250 Yonge for a while, in their immediate pre-bankruptcy years. CTV also had space in the building (don't know if CTV is still there in some form, but I think the CTV signage at the entrance is gone). Recently, Bank of Montreal moved a number of people into 250 Yonge as they moved out of their Islington location (the rest going largely to the new BMO building in Meadowvale, with a sprinkling going to other BMO locations). More details on the Eaton Centre office buildings can be found in the Wikipedia articles on the Eaton Centre and on 250 Yonge.
 
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