East Bayfront: Bayside (Waterfront Toronto/Hines/Tridel, Pelli Clark Pelli et al)

[borgo100]

Ugh... I hope the "updated" version, with its access road and deletion of many public spaces such as bayside hall is just a farce.

http://www.waterfrontoronto.ca/uploads/documents/bayside_waters_edge_1.pdf

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Lisa Rochon also panned it in the Globe:

7) Bayside Development (ongoing design development)

Designers: Arquitectonica (residential building) with master planner Cesar Pelli

Client: Hines

Somebody must have been asleep at the wheel to think that a postmodern pastiche was going to sail through Waterfront Toronto’s design review committee without a hitch. The 10-storey condominium is to be located directly east of Sherbourne Common with a prime location overlooking the water. The use of Ontario limestone in decorative vertical pilasters is bizarre next to a grey-glass curtain wall. What might have been a lyrical piece of lantern architecture set next to the water is merely a boxy volume separated off from the rest of the long building. The Winter Garden is a nice touch in a cold city like Toronto and, if the correct human-scale is figured out, could serve as a lush refuge for Torontonians, much as the palm-tree-filled atrium by Cesar Pelli does at the World Financial Centre in lower Manhattan. The Arquitectonica team is now reworking its design, to be resubmitted to the review panel later this fall.

Grade: B-

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-so-far-a-critics-report-card/article2195138/

AoD

 

[taal]

Ugh... I hope the "updated" version, with its access road and deletion of many public spaces such as bayside hall is just a farce.

http://www.waterfrontoronto.ca/uploads/documents/bayside_waters_edge_1.pdf

Okay so it really looks like the winter garden is gone but there's still a connection inside a building and clearly a lot of other public space still on the site.

What's the issue here, the loss of the winter garden a.k.a inside mall effectively ?

Kind of reminds of the Queens Quay center.

I think things are going to turn out just fine anyway,

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

taal:

Thw wintergarden is still there according to Lisa Rochon's article.

AoD

 

[taal]

taal:

Thw wintergarden is still there according to Lisa Rochon's article.

AoD

Right I read that but I caulked that up to she really doesn't know, so she just assumed it was.

The new renderings seem to imply it doesn't, but that may not be the case. We'll see.

I guess my main point is even in the new design (of the entire plan) there is still a lot of public space !

 

[MisterF]

Ugh... I hope the "updated" version, with its access road and deletion of many public spaces such as bayside hall is just a farce.

http://www.waterfrontoronto.ca/uploads/documents/bayside_waters_edge_1.pdf

I don't see the problem with a waterfront access street. It can reduce the perceptions of the waterfront being condo territory and it looks like it's designed from a pedestrians first point of view. Plus a small amount of vehicle access will bring some much needed activity in the dead of winter.

 

[jje1000]

I don't see the problem with a waterfront access street. It can reduce the perceptions of the waterfront being condo territory and it looks like it's designed from a pedestrians first point of view. Plus a small amount of vehicle access will bring some much needed activity in the dead of winter.

The woonerf is definitely a good idea to keep circulation flowing in this neighbourhood. I actually don't mind the changes, but I'm not quite a fan of the long, unbroken mass of the western-most building.

 

[CanadianNational]

The Plan from 2005:

We really need to get a move on with this. I was just looking over the plans for 3c - and the amount of planned building out there, as well, is phenomenal. At this rate, with only two buildings done in the last five years, I'm going to be a mass of mildewed jello in my grave before the central waterfront is finished. If every two buildings shown here takes five years to build - why, that's about eighty years just for this Bayside section. According to this plan. Har!
Well, maybe I should calm down. After all - Bayside is saying it'll only take ten! (For the south side, anyway). Let's hope the north side gets going before the initial press releases have crumbled to dust.

I also hope, from looking at the plans above, that the new buildings to go in on the north side of QQ do not get bulk-budgeted into the being the somewhat squat spreads that the ones' south of QQ have become. The plan shown above has a lot more interesting, finely-done features about it than the somewhat convenient way Corus and George Brown have been handled. At least Parkside has kept the opening between it's north and south sections. Corus was artificially fattened up and set in it's enlarged pen before George Brown came along, though, so I'm mostly blaming it. But still. At least the recently-presented Bayside plan seems to have kept a lot of the detail wanted intact.

[rambling & ranting...]

 

[taal]

The Plan from 2005:
We really need to get a move on with this. I was just looking over the plans for 3c - and the amount of planned building out there, as well, is phenomenal. At this rate, with only two buildings done in the last five years, I'm going to be a mass of mildewed jello in my grave before the central waterfront is finished. If every two buildings shown here takes five years to build - why, that's about eighty years just for this section. According to this plan. Har!
Well, maybe I should calm down. After all - Bayside is saying it'll only take ten! (For the south side, anyway). Let's hope the north side gets going before the initial press releases have crumbled to dust.

I also hope, from looking at the plans above, that the new buildings to go in on the north side of QQ do not get bulk-budgeted into the being the somewhat squat spreads that the ones' south of QQ have become. The plan shown above has a lot more interesting, finely-done features about it than the somewhat convenient way Corus and George Brown have been handled. At least Parkside has kept the opening between it's north and south sections. Corus was artificially fattened up and set in it's enlarged pen before George Brown came along, though, so I'm mostly blaming it. But still.

I didn't reply to you earlier did I ?

No things will go a lot faster now - understand that a lot of infrasture work was needed on this land first. Secondly, this entire East Bayfront parcel is driven through the private partner Hines, just awared a year ago or so. I think things will really pick up now.

You now for all the misgivings of the Corus building, from the ground level and the interior (which is open to the public) it is really an amazing space. Though I agree from the outsite it isn't a materperice, from the inside it really is.



There's a problem with the North side, a big one ... some parcels are still held by private developers, so we really don't know what's going to happen there for some time now.


BTW - the 3C land is the home depot site, there's another thread for that one I think. Is that the land just east of Hines's east bayfront parcel ?

 

[CanadianNational]

lol yeah, I think you did Taal. But when it comes to the Waterfront, my fuse is burning a bit short, lately. I think I'll go have a cocktail, instead of pondering the infeffables.

I didn't know the north side was held up by private owners. I guess I just assumed that WaterfrontToronto had just proceeded to snap it all up, kit and kaboodle by now.

Yep 3C is the site just due east, between Parliament and Cherry. (And perhaps past Cherry to the Don, too?)

 

[Automation Gallery]

There's a problem with the North side, a big one ... some parcels are still held by private developers, so we really don't know what's going to happen there for some time now.

I didn't know the north side was held up by private owners. I guess I just assumed that WaterfrontToronto had just proceeded to snap it all up, kit and kaboodle by now.

Interesting, looks like everyone else wants in.


Just to the west of the site, at the foot of Lower Sherbourne, the Great Gulf Group of Companies is building the first private-sector development in Waterfront Toronto’s new East Bayfront community. Mondial Condos, a 500-unit project designed by renowned Canadian architect Moshe Safdie, is scheduled to be completed in 2015.

South of Queens Quay, between Sherbourne and Parliament, international builder Hines will be developing the other major parcel in East Bayfront. The project will include 1,700 condos and 2 million square feet of residential and commercial development space.

“All of a sudden all the major developers have discovered this neighbourhood,†says Cityzen president Sam Crignano. “And the others are all here scouting. I know the boys from Concord Pacific are looking for sites, so is everyone else. They’ve discovered Toronto East, and it’s on fire.â€
http://www.yourhome.ca/homes/realestate/siteprofiles/article/1031369--reclaiming-the-east-waterfront

 

[Torontovibe]

I didn't reply to you earlier did I ?

No things will go a lot faster now - understand that a lot of infrasture work was needed on this land first. Secondly, this entire East Bayfront parcel is driven through the private partner Hines, just awared a year ago or so. I think things will really pick up now.

You now for all the misgivings of the Corus building, from the ground level and the interior (which is open to the public) it is really an amazing space. Though I agree from the outsite it isn't a materperice, from the inside it really is.



There's a problem with the North side, a big one ... some parcels are still held by private developers, so we really don't know what's going to happen there for some time now.


BTW - the 3C land is the home depot site, there's another thread for that one I think. Is that the land just east of Hines's east bayfront parcel ?

If the Corus building is open to the public, you wouldn't know it. They never open those huge sliding doors. In fact, they keep the doors facing the water, locked. I have to go around to the north facing entrance to use the washroom. The reason why you never see any of the general public, going into the Corus lobby, is because Corus does everything to keep them out.

I remember when this building was first promoted, we were told it was going to be a place for the public to use and that there would be many shows for the public to watch, from their west facing studios. I go to Sugar Beach all the time and this whole summer, I've only seen 1 show (a radio show) where the public could watch, so to say I've been disappointed with this complex, is an understatement. I was expecting so much more. We didn't get nearly what was promised. I feel like the general public is not wanted here, unless they have money to spend in their restaurant.

 

[taal]

Well they've had more then a few outdoor events there.

Have you been inside the building though ? If it's not always open I agree that's unfortunte cause it's a really nice space.

 

[Torontovibe]

Well they've had more then a few outdoor events there.

Have you been inside the building though ? If it's not always open I agree that's unfortunte cause it's a really nice space.

Yes, I've been inside bit I don't think the front is ever open. They keep the waterside doors locked. You need to swipe a card to get in. It was supposed to be a public access area but it's not. (as far as I've seen) Those massive, glass sliding doors were not open once this summer. You have to go around to the back side of the buildings, where the coffee shop is. That door is kept unlocked but there is always somebody at the front door desk, watching. There is 1 washroom, that the public can use. I went into Corus to use the washroom, which was occupied, so after waiting 5 minutes, decided to go to Loblaws, across the street. I like the interior of this building, I just wish it had more of a public use. More entertainment and shows, would be nice. The waterfront movies were really cool!

 

[taal]

My Doors Open experience must have fooled me, as they really made it out that it would always be open.


Regarding events, I think there are a lot more then you may realize that have already taken place. There were multiple music events held here, well attended too, but not that well advertized. I forgot what bands they had.