Downtown Rapid Transit Expansion Study

[gweed123]

Can I mention an alternative DRL routing I don't think I've seen suggested here?

I think it should run above ground on GO's Don Branch, terminating in the north at Broadview station (requiring a tunnel of about 500m), and leaving the Don Valley to enter a 2 km tunnel under King St., terminating at the existing King Station.

That seems to hit the goal of relieving Bloor-Yonge, not interfering with Union and the USRC, and improving transit in downtown east. Its chief advantage of course is that about half the route and a couple of stations would be above ground, and it is shorter than proposals based on Pape. So it would be a lot cheaper.

Personally, I don't think a DRL will ever get built unless it is cheap, which means above ground.

I think this would have to be run by Metrolinx cause they wouldn't give up a line, even one they are probably never going to use. (If you think they would use the Don Branch for Richmond Hill trains, have an up close look at the Half Mile Bridge someday.) If they wanted to extend this line west to a station at their Bathurst Yard I guess they could too.

I'd be glad to hear why this is technically or politically impossible, or otherwise a dumb idea. I think it might never have been considered much, because in the old days of the DRL the Don Branch wasn't owned by the government, and the Lakeshore corridor wasn't so busy.

(I think that in 300 posts on UT this is my first "fantasy map"!)

I'm assuming you mean the tracks on the west side of the river, right? Because north of Gerrard, a set of tracks crosses over to the east side of the river. That may be the better option, because there's more room on the east side north of Gerrard than there is on the west side.

It certainly would be a cheaper routing, but it would mean that you would have stations at Gerrard and Queen on the northbound stretch, and that's about it.

Definitely an idea worth examining further though!

 

[k10ery]

Yes, the Don Branch is side by side with Bala til Riverdale Park then crosses the river on a single track bridge.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

But with riders who are already paying to ride a subway. That makes a pretty big difference to the cost benefit analysis.

Sorry not arguing with you but I think that's a MAJOR error with today's transit planning in the GTA. We are overvaluing "new" riders (I sometimes question just how new these riders will be, for example someone boarding at a future Richmond Hill Centre subway station is not or can not be the same person who was riding the YRT down to Finch station?) and ignoring existing riders.

Much like induced demand with highways just because approx 17 000 riders shift, using Gweed's quoted number, from one route (Bloor-Danforth, or Yonge, or Queen/King streetcar) does not mean that the existing routes will automagically lose all 17 000 riders into thin air. The added space on the existing routes as well as on the new line will encourage more people to take the TTC much like adding an extra lane on a highway encourages more drivers to take that route.

 

[CDL.TO]

But, CDL.TO, do you mean to say that this new line could not share trackage with the Richmond Hill trains on the Bala Sub? I guess at least that would limit the choice of equipment, but I don't know the rules.

Our current subway trains could not share tracks the the GO line. You could buy trains that are compatible, however there isn't really capacity for this through the USRC (once you get south of Eastern Ave).

 

[CapitalSeven]

I went back to the first post of this thread, in which the text of the text of the TTC's web page was pasted in its entirety. The last line is "Further information will be posted here as the study continues." I can't see as much as a puntuation mark that has been added since to that web page in the ensuing 17 months.

 

[mskashmoney]

When will we get our tax $$$ back so we can invest in our own projects.

Cheers.

How about a few less fighter jets and a DRL with an extension to Exhibition thrown in. Too much tax money is being taken by higher levels of gov't.

 

[mskashmoney]

The Front corridor is in the process of being built up with much greater heights and densities than Queen, and is poorly served by transit. It has important regional destinations like the Dome, the convention centre, and the Exhibition that would benefit from a subway line. Building it would not involve scrapping an existing transit investment and would be less disruptive in terms of transit, people's lives, and heritage.

Culturally speaking, people who are living in those condo towers along Front street have little reason to visit the Exhibition. That's why it's best to loop it up North and forget Exhibition altogether.

 

[sixrings]

People in the condo towers dont go to the EX, to toronto FC games, to the molson INDY, to trade shows,medevil times, to a potentially redeveloped ontario place? These things dont encourage culture?

 

[mskashmoney]

People in the condo towers dont go to the EX, to toronto FC games, to the molson INDY, to trade shows,medevil times, to a potentially redeveloped ontario place? These things dont encourage culture?

No. Next time the Ex is on check out the hastags like #theEx to see what downtowners think of circuses, airplane shows, and the riffraff that goes to sporting events like the INDY, UFC, ETC.

Downtowners hang out on Queen, the Distillery District, Village, Bloor West, The Danforth...etc.

 

[mskashmoney]

Medieval Times.....ha!

Hmmmmm......maybe I should call my friends and go to Ontario Place for a 3D movie at the IMAX! We'll get nachos with that fluorescent cheese sauce and corndogs........lololol

/sarcasm

 

[mskashmoney]

The streetcar doesn't bog the street down. The cars on it do.

You're correct. It's a great exercise in patience when there are about 70 of us packed into a car, all waiting for one car to make a left turn.

Personally I try to practice Qi Gong, and cultivate more inner awareness, perhaps using The Secret to wish for a day when the private sector comes in and saves us from this bureacratic hell that prevents transit in this city from moving forward.

 

[sixrings]

No. Next time the Ex is on check out the hastags like #theEx to see what downtowners think of circuses, airplane shows, and the riffraff that goes to sporting events like the INDY, UFC, ETC.

Downtowners hang out on Queen, the Distillery District, Village, Bloor West, The Danforth...etc.

I lived downtown between 2004-2009. I loved every minute of it. But my second home was the ACC. I also went to every molson INDY, to countless FC games and always to the EX. These are downtown activities just as much as TIFF or taste of the danforth. I really hate the term pinkos or latte sipping downtowners as if downtown people are all snobby. However you are doing a great job projecting what the suburbs view as elitism. Good work. And thanks for the culutral tips.

 

[mskashmoney]

Come on...planes flying around in loops in the air, cars racing around in a circle? How can you call that "entertainment" when it's kind of elementary and pollutes the air? I don't think I'm an "elitist", communist and would never go to Starbucks. I just have taste for things that exercise my brain, are you going to judge me for that?

And I'm sure you agree, it's mostly suburban families with children go to such events and a DRL should be for us, not them, because we're the ones without cars that need it.

I don't know where you lived, but I'm at upper Cabbagetown. It would take me 45 minutes to get to Queen/Bathurst by transit b/c it's so pathetically slow. I could walk in 60. That situation has to change b/c remember I can't have a car, there's nowhere to park.

 

[sixrings]

Come on...planes flying around in loops in the air, cars racing around in a circle? How can you call that "entertainment" when it's kind of elementary and pollutes the air? I don't think I'm an "elitist", communist and would never go to Starbucks. I just have taste for things that exercise my brain, are you going to judge me for that?

And I'm sure you agree, it's mostly suburban families with children go to such events and a DRL should be for us, not them, because we're the ones without cars that need it.

I don't know where you lived, but I'm at upper Cabbagetown. It would take me 45 minutes to get to Queen/Bathurst by transit b/c it's so pathetically slow. I could walk in 60. That situation has to change b/c remember I can't have a car, there's nowhere to park.

you are asking me if im going to judge you for not liking sports events after you mock people who enjoy them? I dont care if you like things that exercise your brain. But when you make it sound like you are too good for things that many people like you are asking to be made fun of equLLY IF NOT WORSE. Btw I didnt make fun I simply said this is why some people think downtowners think they are better then others.

I lived at King and University. I also like to point out I dont think my brain was used much more exploring bloor west, high park, the danforth, the destillery or at TIFF. Also like to point out FC and INDY are beer filled events not necessarly for families. Also like to point out these "elementary" sports are both followed world wide by billions of people. (I am sure all the world cup lovers would love to hear your opinion of their sport)

Finally alot of suburban people when travelling downtown take transit because they cant stand the stop and go traffic and the expensive parking. The DRL is for both the downtown residents and the rest of the city. Its not a either or senario.

 

[mskashmoney]

I got more cultural tips, but I rarely go out in the winter because it's so cold and I'm not waiting for a bus in this weather. And btw, I live in the most dense area of CANADA and we don't have a subway stop nearby. But at least you can take a subway through a neighbourhood of two-story homes to IKEA on Sheppard.

Transit should be planned by people who live in and understand cities and preferably have seen a few in their lifetime. As for myself, London, Amsterdam, Rome, (insert most Europe capitals here) St. Petersburg, Istanbul, Cairo, Tehran, Athens, Monterrey, Washington, NY, Chicago....there's a pattern on which transit systems are built, and the morons that run transit in this city don't know what they're doing. Either that, or they're as corrupt as the feds spending millions on fighter jets. I rack my brain trying to figure out which scenario is true, but not for too long because it's best to join the legions of people my age and just get out of here.

The brain drain from this city is real. You can't expect my generation and the one after to travel the world and come back and settle for this. And it sucks, because we all know that T.O. has the potential to be the best place on Earth b/c it's diverse, it's North American, it's people are extremely chill AND, most importantly, it's NOT THE UNITED STATES.

I hope some esoteric force in the universe will communicate that to the powers that run this city because there is a lot at stake.