Downtown Rapid Transit Expansion Study

[M II A II R II K]

The problem with "dipping down" is the radius of curvature that is needed to complete the "S" turn. With a station at Bay/Wellington, The nearest downtown DRL stations on Queen would be at Sherbourne to the East and Peter to the West to allow the line to "dip down" - and this also assumes you are deep enough to go under any building foundations in your way.

Come to think of it, it would be better to have the station north of King to cover more area when getting off at the station, perhaps have an Adelaide Station around Bay with underpasses to walk to Union Station and up to City Hall in the other direction and have the E-W GO routes pass through there as well. Then to the west the next station would be Osgoode, and to the east have a station at Church and Queen with walkway transfer access to Queen Station.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Since the Financial District is so compact and has the convenience of the PATH network extending in all directions, regardless of where the station is located people going anywhere in the FD will just exit at that station and walk to work. There won't be very many people getting off at Queen and taking the Yonge or University station two stops south to Union, or getting off at Union and taking the subway two stops north to Queen.

The bad news is that regardless of where we place it, it will probably be the most expensive subway station in TTC history. However, I think that spending $500 million for a station at Queen and Bay is a better investment than spending $100 million for a station on the 407 transitway since a Queen and Bay station would attract 5, 10 and maybe 15 X the ridership.

 

[Palma]

Since the Financial District is so compact and has the convenience of the PATH network extending in all directions, regardless of where the station is located people going anywhere in the FD will just exit at that station and walk to work. There won't be very many people getting off at Queen and taking the Yonge or University station two stops south to Union, or getting off at Union and taking the subway two stops north to Queen.

The bad news is that regardless of where we place it, it will probably be the most expensive subway station in TTC history. However, I think that spending $500 million for a station at Queen and Bay is a better investment than spending $100 million for a station on the 407 transitway since a Queen and Bay station would attract 5, 10 and maybe 15 X the ridership.

Agree with all that was said. When I get off at Union even if I am not sure exactly where I need to go, I just walk underneath that path. And any money on transit and subways downtown are far and away better spent money than even a dollar on a station at a highway

 

[k10ery]

I think this thread was originally about the Downtown Rapid Transit Expansion Study.

Since the DRTES was due to be completed in 2011, and it is now no longer 2011, does anybody have an inkling when the report is going to be released?

 

[GenerationW]

does anybody have an inkling when the report is going to be released?

Last I heard, this spring.

 

[k10ery]

Can I mention an alternative DRL routing I don't think I've seen suggested here?

I think it should run above ground on GO's Don Branch, terminating in the north at Broadview station (requiring a tunnel of about 500m), and leaving the Don Valley to enter a 2 km tunnel under King St., terminating at the existing King Station.

That seems to hit the goal of relieving Bloor-Yonge, not interfering with Union and the USRC, and improving transit in downtown east. Its chief advantage of course is that about half the route and a couple of stations would be above ground, and it is shorter than proposals based on Pape. So it would be a lot cheaper.

Personally, I don't think a DRL will ever get built unless it is cheap, which means above ground.

I think this would have to be run by Metrolinx cause they wouldn't give up a line, even one they are probably never going to use. (If you think they would use the Don Branch for Richmond Hill trains, have an up close look at the Half Mile Bridge someday.) If they wanted to extend this line west to a station at their Bathurst Yard I guess they could too.

I'd be glad to hear why this is technically or politically impossible, or otherwise a dumb idea. I think it might never have been considered much, because in the old days of the DRL the Don Branch wasn't owned by the government, and the Lakeshore corridor wasn't so busy.

(I think that in 300 posts on UT this is my first "fantasy map"!)

 

[Rainforest]

Can I mention an alternative DRL routing I don't think I've seen suggested here?

I think it should run above ground on GO's Don Branch, terminating in the north at Broadview station (requiring a tunnel of about 500m), and leaving the Don Valley to enter a 2 km tunnel under King St., terminating at the existing King Station.

That seems to hit the goal of relieving Bloor-Yonge, not interfering with Union and the USRC, and improving transit in downtown east. Its chief advantage of course is that about half the route and a couple of stations would be above ground, and it is shorter than proposals based on Pape. So it would be a lot cheaper.

Personally, I don't think a DRL will ever get built unless it is cheap, which means above ground.

I think this would have to be run by Metrolinx cause they wouldn't give up a line, even one they are probably never going to use. (If you think they would use the Don Branch for Richmond Hill trains, have an up close look at the Half Mile Bridge someday.) If they wanted to extend this line west to a station at their Bathurst Yard I guess they could too.

I'd be glad to hear why this is technically or politically impossible, or otherwise a dumb idea. I think it might never have been considered much, because in the old days of the DRL the Don Branch wasn't owned by the government, and the Lakeshore corridor wasn't so busy.

(I think that in 300 posts on UT this is my first "fantasy map"!)

That's an interesting option ... but will two subway tracks fit the Don branch strip?

 

[CDL.TO]

That's an interesting option ... but will two subway tracks fit the Don branch strip?

Or more importantly, before the Don Branch branches off?

 

[BurlOak]

That's an interesting option ... but will two subway tracks fit the Don branch strip?

Plus, there is quite a vertical difference between the railway and subway. Also, based on the recent Metrolinx study, it appears that they want the DRL to intersect GO to take some traffic off the GO trains before Union.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

An underground DRL will cost until 2.5 billion. No cheap but not Sheppard either.

 

[GenerationW]

According to this site, it would be about $6 billion from Spadina to Eglinton, and close to $2 billion from Spadina to Dundas West Station.

Neither a Sheppard extension nor a DRL will be cheap.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

An underground DRL will cost until 2.5 billion. No cheap but not Sheppard either.

but it could very well have Yonge style ridership numbers on opening day.

 

[nfitz]

but it could very well have Yonge style ridership numbers on opening day.

Metrolinx's estimate for 2031 with the DRL (Pape to Dundas West) was higher than Bloor-Danforth, but not as high as Yonge. Still very significant!

 

[k10ery]

That's an interesting option ... but will two subway tracks fit the Don branch strip?

Or more importantly, before the Don Branch branches off?

North of where it branches off, definitely enough room. To the south, the combined ROW is narrow, thanks to the Bayview Extension.

But, CDL.TO, do you mean to say that this new line could not share trackage with the Richmond Hill trains on the Bala Sub? I guess at least that would limit the choice of equipment, but I don't know the rules.

but it could very well have Yonge style ridership numbers on opening day.

But with riders who are already paying to ride a subway. That makes a pretty big difference to the cost benefit analysis.

 

[gweed123]

Metrolinx's estimate for 2031 with the DRL (Pape to Dundas West) was higher than Bloor-Danforth, but not as high as Yonge. Still very significant!

I believe it was 17,500 pphpd, which would make it the line with the 5th highest projected ridership in the entire Big Move (with 4 of the Express Rail lines being above it, and 1 just below it).