"Downtown Core Line" - Possible Alignments?

[Darren B]

Darren. Have you seen the links we've posted or will you continue to cherry pick your arguments?

Keithz, are you referring to the info about development or the case of Main station? In case you havent noticed yet, I'm not the type that justifies my view based solely on a map I found online or a link I found online about a possible development that is destined to take place. I know the area of Main station to Gerrard pretty well first hand. I am in the Main Square are probably twice a weekend and at least once a weekday. I go there for either the Sobeys or the Canadian Tire or whatever else I might need from that area. Yes the stations are not literally on top of each other, but anyone, abled or disabled, can transfer the short distance between the two. Its no harder then say the brief walk to cross a light at a wide avenue such as University. Using the argument that we need better transfers then that to justify running the DRL side-by-side to a GO line on the Portlands is a non-starter because we already have a good enough transfer on the Lakeshore east line. Having a DRL station at the Portlands will do nothing for that area that a GO station would not.

I was on Queen between Spadina and Bathurst last night, and from there ended up at Bloor and Bathurst wakling east towards Spadina again. There were more people waking in and out of establishments along Queen west then there were on Bloor west. I ended up back on Queen west later in the night and the sidewalks were still busy with people. Alot of those people drove or took a streetcar to get where they had to go. I think that the current concentration of around the clock activity on Queen deserves something better then a streetcar. A subway would encourage that area to become even more then what it currently is.

 

[Darren B]

So they are using google earth to get an objective measure of the distance. What of it? Should the TTC develop it's master capital plans now according to which stations are accessible by Darren? I am sure there are stations that you don't use regularly in the TTC that you would be quite willing to pass judgement on.

What may seem like a 2 minute walk to you may be much worse for a senior citizen, a person in a wheel chair, a single mother carrying a kid and groceries, etc. And as citizens of this great city, they have just as much a say in demanding accessible services as any self-important downtowner, and all the more so if they are folks who regularly have to do that changeover. I for one, will not condemn efforts to make our transit system more accessible and easier to use.

This debate isnt about a master plan, but about the accesbility of the transfer between the two systems at Main station. So lets not forget what we were debating here. See my reponse that I just posted about the accesability of the that transfer. Anyone who takes public transit can transfer there.

 

[kEiThZ]

Keithz, are you referring to the info about development or the case of Main station?

I was talking about the Waterfront Toronto link in post #136.

 

[kEiThZ]

GO riders on Lakeshore east already have that option at Danforth station, and Georgtown at Kipling.

If you build that far out in the east, it kinda defeats the purpose of having a RELIEF LINE. All you are doing is diverting riders from Scarborough and Durham at that point...not relieving the rest of the BD line. Likewise for the west. Again, the primary goal of the DRL is to relieve Y/B and to lesser extent St.George and Spadina. We aren't trying to divert GO riders. What would be the point of promoting transfers at Main and Kipling?

If that's going to be the case, let's go all out and move the DRL all the way east to the hub at Kennedy. And all way west to Kipling. That'll be true relief.

 

[andomano]

'Trust me' is not a slogan that the TTC should be using for billions of dollars worth of transit plans. The last time they did that, we ended up with the SRT.

Hah. Nice.



Oh, and stop doubling posting Darren.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Steeles will benefit from the Spadina line extension effectively cutting the route into 2.

in 1998/1999 I was one of the people who rode Steeles past York U to Finch simply cause it was easier (fewer transfers). I got the impression a large number of people on the bus were doing the same at the time.

That's true for Steeles West, but I was talking about Steeles East.

Once the Steeles East bus leaves Finch station, the biggest (well, the only) bunch of people that get on are York students transferring from Steeles to Steeles. If the DRL ran up Don Mills (like it probably should) to Finch/Seneca, an East Steeles East branch could run there. Of course, Metrolinx is mulling a "rapid transit" line on Steeles itself...

 

[urbanfan89]

Once the Steeles East bus leaves Finch station, the biggest (well, the only) bunch of people that get on are York students transferring from Steeles to Steeles. If the DRL ran up Don Mills (like it probably should) to Finch/Seneca, an East Steeles East branch could run there. Of course, Metrolinx is mulling a "rapid transit" line on Steeles itself...

Or GO could upgrade its Markham/Stoufville and Richmond Hill lines to 15 minutes frequency for a lot less than a subway, and use its stations on Steeles as transit nodes.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Or GO could upgrade its Markham/Stoufville and Richmond Hill lines to 15 minutes frequency for a lot less than a subway, and use its stations on Steeles as transit nodes.

We need to do both. Even if the number of stations along GO lines was more than doubled to make GO less useless for short/medium/non-downtown trips, better GO service is no substitute for a transit line on Don Mills (as in a continuation of the DRL).

 

[cacruden]

What may seem like a 2 minute walk to you may be much worse for a senior citizen, a person in a wheel chair, a single mother carrying a kid and groceries, etc.

Yes, people have such a hard time of things here in Toronto. BTW, most people in wheelchairs can get to their destination quicker, so..... by your logic..... maybe we should require them to travel farther to board transit I find they typically zoom by me - even with a manual wheelchair - I just get in their way and slow them down.

Make sure that people in wheelchairs have equal access - but I don't feel the need to treat them with kid gloves.

 

[afransen]

Yes, people have such a hard time of things here in Toronto. BTW, most people in wheelchairs can get to their destination quicker, so..... by your logic..... maybe we should require them to travel farther to board transit I find they typically zoom by me - even with a manual wheelchair - I just get in their way and slow them down.

Make sure that people in wheelchairs have equal access - but I don't feel the need to treat them with kid gloves.

Is it ok to put the handicap parking spots all farther away, then?

There are many disabled people for whom a 400 m walk is pretty significant. I don't think they should be forced to use a wheelchair when it's not necessary.

 

[cacruden]

^ there is a difference between making sure something is handicap accessible, and going overboard and developing a transit system where everyone is taken right to their door. Our problem is that we have a transit system that is not completely accessible, for people with disabilities - that should be our highest priority - not building a transit system that lets you off at your door. If you are so handicapped that you cannot get to it 400m away, then the aggregate amount of commuting to and from the transit points as you travel throughout the day is going to make public transit impossible anyways. Now, if you are so handicapped that you have little or no motor skills - then there is always the option of the electric wheelchairs these days (unfortunately more than those that need them use them - just like the handicap stickers - which means that they may not be available for those that really need them). As for parking, if you move the handicapped parking away, then you will create a situation where you are treating them the opposite - in a vindictive nature. The current regular parking spaces make it impossible to take a wheelchair between them to navigate your way to the store, assuming you would have been able to get out of them. Not to mention, having them close to the building means that you will be better able to monitor them so that you can go out with a baseball bat and smack the living daylights out a lazy bastard that just parks there because he thinks he is special.

 

[Darren B]

I agree with the last poster. There is only so much conveniance that transit can offer. There will always be a small percentage of the population who's needs cannot be accomodated. We have Wheeltrans that may accomodate them. That transfer at Main station to Danforth station is accesable enough to accomodate the needs of those riding those 2 transit systems.

Edit - I dont mean that their needs should be ignored, but we need to understand that with limited investment we should focus on improving the main system for the majority of riders, and improve the secondary system that caters to those riders who need the extra assistance.

 

[kEiThZ]

The discussion about Main-Danforth is irrelevant. A GO-TTC transfer along the Bloor-Danforth line would do nothing to relieve Yonge/Bloor, especially that far east. Service along GO's line would have to be far better than frequencies of 15 mins to provide even minimal relief. As it stands the current improvements will attract new roders but won't divert too many off the TTC.

 

[Darren B]

We were discussing it in in relation to a GO station in the Portlandsand the need to run the DRL beside that station. So how is that irrelvant?

But for the record, I disagree that its an urgent matter to get GO riders away from Union..The report presented to council made reference to GO users trying to avoud paying a second fare. Few travel onto the subway. And those that switch at Union ride the subway against the flow of rush hour traffic. Yes it would be nice to give them more options to switch at other areas then just Union, but its not a pressing issue. Also, the DRL in its east can trigger the creation of GO station at Gerrard Sqaure area. Independantly of all this, the province might commit to their promise to resurrect the Summerhil CPR station. 905 residents who work in midtown might switch to using GO transit from using the TTC.

 

[nfitz]

The discussion about Main-Danforth is irrelevant. A GO-TTC transfer along the Bloor-Danforth line would do nothing to relieve Yonge/Bloor, especially that far east.

The original poster dismissed the need for a GO-TTC transfer on the DRL because of the existing Main-Danforth location. Yes, Main-Danforth is irrelevent, because for all intents and purposes it doesn't exist.