Downtown Baltimore video. T.O. needs something like this.

[RC8]

I was in Manhattan this weekend and yes, greenwich village was incredibly bland (as was the rest of the city) in terms of its people. A New Yorker told me that she thought 'NY is the only city in the world where you can be whoever you really are', and yet the diversity of Manhattan is nothing compared to the diversity we have here in Toronto.

They also talk about their subway as if it was world's best, when I've visited many better ones.

I agree that it's all about attitude. Unfortunately that attitude can only truly arise on an urban setting I believe, and Toronto's suburbia is still too powerful for that to happen. Half of Toronto's population doesn't even like the idea of a 'city'.

 

[taal]

That's not what it is. Even in New York a lot of people in the suburbs hate the idea of going downtown, that's not a Toronto thing at all.

I think it's the media for the most part. If you look at Toronto 10/15 years ago there was a completely different attitude, if you remember the 'Toronto the good' days ... Toronto sucked back then too But everyone in the city and surrounding area only had good things to say.

I can't quite pin down when things started going bad, after Mel ? after the cities amalgamated ?

 

[Torontovibe]

I was in Manhattan this weekend and yes, greenwich village was incredibly bland (as was the rest of the city) in terms of its people. A New Yorker told me that she thought 'NY is the only city in the world where you can be whoever you really are', and yet the diversity of Manhattan is nothing compared to the diversity we have here in Toronto.

They also talk about their subway as if it was world's best, when I've visited many better ones.

I agree that it's all about attitude. Unfortunately that attitude can only truly arise on an urban setting I believe, and Toronto's suburbia is still too powerful for that to happen. Half of Toronto's population doesn't even like the idea of a 'city'.

So true! The buildings are great but the atmosphere is bland.

Greenwich Village has become YUPPY central in NYC. It's all upscale tourists, suits and fancy bars. It reminds me of King Street West. It used to be called "The Gay Village" back when I first started to visit New York (the 80's) but it seems like the gays have deserted it now and the suits have replaced them. It's quite disappointing. (Pretty but dull) The funky, cool, friendly, artsy vibe it once had, is long gone.

Not one single damned poster anywhere in Manhattan though. (yes, I looked) Not even in the East Village. Everything is so clean. Well, accept for the subways, which are pretty in bad shape. I also don't like NYC's subways but I do like their parks. They are still building new ones and spending some serious cash on them. I like how they surround them with nice fences. No patches of just trees and grass, like many of Toronto's parks.

New York does some things really well. They even have much fewer homeless people laying around on sidewalks. (almost no beggars too) As for the street food/carts, well, I wasn't as impressed as some UT members, who have praised their street eats. Toronto has way better comfort food as far as I'm concerned. Christ, you can't even find a beef knish, even in Jewish delis. What's a Jewish deli without a beef knish? The potato knishes suck! You might as well just order mashed potatoes. (the cart knishes are putrid) I was not impressed with anything I ate in NYC. Toronto's shawarmas win hands down. They put mayo and lettuce on their shawarmas. (that's so wrong!) I got Chinese food in Chinatown - FAIL! (prices were good though)

One thing I was surprised about is the number of tourists. Every single attraction was packed with tourists, there were huge lineups for EVERYTHING. How can it be that NYC gets 49 million tourists a year and Toronto only gets 10 million? I was checking American tourist stats and it seems like all major American cities have 30 to 40something million tourists a year. Why are our numbers so low by comparison?

 

[Automation Gallery]

One thing I was surprised about is the number of tourists. Every single attraction was packed with tourists, there were huge lineups for EVERYTHING. How can it be that NYC gets 49 million tourists a year and Toronto only gets 10 million? I was checking American tourist stats and it seems like all major American cities have 30 to 40 something million tourists a year. Why are our numbers so low by comparison?

Yeah, we used to get much more years ago, Toronto has built very few tourist attractions in the past decade.
...Build that Aquarium, a couple of world-class Casinos, Revitalize Ontario Place/Exhibiton Place into a state-of the-art venue, bring in an NFL franchise, and oh yeah, win that 2020 Olympic bid... and we will be just fine.

 

[Automation Gallery]

Oh yeah..to the above i was going to add,
...(stop fearing building heights) and build a couple of iconic supertalls.
But id get a triple wham-slam from many UT members for mentioning... Casinos, NFL team(stadium), and Skyscrapers.

 

[Jonny5]

I read a comment on another site that encapsulates many of these sentiments.

The "core of the core" in many US cities (and Toronto too) has had an influx of 20-35 year olds who are there to dress up and play "city". They want to live out the TV shows of the 90's they grew up watching about wealthy white kids livng unrealistic lives (Sex and the City, Friends, Seinfeld). A result has been a homogenity of culture that has altered the city. You could take a slice of Manhattan, Chicago, San Francisco or Toronto and they would all be pretty much the same.

The quality of life is grand, but it just feels a little too mass produced and temporary. Do these people really plan to stay or will it be back to Barrie once the shine wears off the new condos?

 

[OttoSchloss]

I think when you hear the same message, repeated over and over, people just don't question it.

Kinda like that whole "Toronto is boring/bland/soulless" message that has been promoted by ROCers for the past 50 years?

It's not true but still has traction.

Even *Torontonians* are guilty of perpetuating this nonsense. Check out this article. It's completely ridiculous, replete with stereotypes of 30 years ago but yet (considering it's published on a Montreal based site) surely perpetuates the air of superiority that still exists.

http://montreal.openfile.ca/en/blog/2011/why-having-montreal-fun-toronto-well-work

 

[Long Island Mike]

I read a comment on another site that encapsulates many of these sentiments.

The "core of the core" in many US cities (and Toronto too) has had an influx of 20-35 year olds who are there to dress up and play "city". They want to live out the TV shows of the 90's they grew up watching about wealthy white kids livng unrealistic lives (Sex and the City, Friends, Seinfeld). A result has been a homogenity of culture that has altered the city. You culd tae a slice of Manhattan, Chicago, San Francisco or Toronto and they would all be pretty much the same.

The quality of life is grand, but it just feels a little too mass produced and temporary. Do these peple really plan to stay or will it be back to Barrie once the shine wears off the new condos?

J5: That is a really interesting thought and for the most part I happen to agree with you...

That demographic of people come to the City to party but I feel many have the "Nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there" mentality...when it comes time they go back out to Long Island or North Jersey (from Manhattan) because deep down the City rat race is just too much for them...LI MIKE

 

[Long Island Mike]

Downtown Baltimore promoting itself...a good idea...and Toronto can also...

Everyone: I want to mention the original topic about Baltimore promoting its Downtown...I feel that it is a good idea and Baltimore is doing what it needs to do
for its own well-being...

Baltimore has always played "second fiddle" to nearby Washington,DC and they need to let tourists and those interested what they have to offer...I recall a term used once
was "Washington's Brooklyn" and there are definitely similarities in the way Baltimore relates to Washington as the way Hamilton relates to Toronto...

The city pairs both being about 40 miles from one another is just the first thing they have in common...

Would Hamilton help itself by doing something similar? I believe so...
Would it help Toronto tourism? It can not hurt to try...

Thoughts from LI MIKE

 

[gabe]

I believe, and Toronto's suburbia is still too powerful for that to happen. Half of Toronto's population doesn't even like the idea of a 'city'.

And those folks are the ones who voted for Rob Ford.

NYC is starting to scare me, with the "outdoor smoking ban" I don't even smoke but i still find this law a little over the top. Now they have banned street performers in parks and now have designated "quite zones" which includes the John Lennon memorial out of all places!! I really hope we don't ever see this kind of dictatorship happen in Toronto.

 

[RC8]

That's not what it is. Even in New York a lot of people in the suburbs hate the idea of going downtown, that's not a Toronto thing at all.

I think it's the media for the most part. If you look at Toronto 10/15 years ago there was a completely different attitude, if you remember the 'Toronto the good' days ... Toronto sucked back then too But everyone in the city and surrounding area only had good things to say.

I can't quite pin down when things started going bad, after Mel ? after the cities amalgamated ?

After cities amalgamated. That's exactly it. Before, the City of Toronto took care of the needs of those who lived in the actual city of Toronto. Nowadays the city responds to a number of unsustainable post-WWII suburban wastelands as well as to the actual city. I don't think someone in Etobicoke has more of a right to dictate what goes on in downtown Toronto than someone in Oakville.

De-amalgamate the cities and downtown Toronto will become a world class city so quickly it's scary.

As things stand, maintaining an infrastructure built for car-commuting is exhaustive and unsustainable.

 

[Tewder]

One thing I was surprised about is the number of tourists. Every single attraction was packed with tourists, there were huge lineups for EVERYTHING. How can it be that NYC gets 49 million tourists a year and Toronto only gets 10 million? I was checking American tourist stats and it seems like all major American cities have 30 to 40something million tourists a year. Why are our numbers so low by comparison?

Are you serious? No offense intended but your post is completely out to lunch. It must be noshing on bland bagels in Toronto

Look, Toronto is a nice place but the Big Apple it aint, no matter how touristy and upscale NYC has become. Trust me, the fact that you didn't see cool dudes with mohawks in the Village just means you needed to ditch the Fodors guide and venture beyond places that were 'bohemian' more than 50 years ago...

 

[RC8]

Has Manhattan become too gentrified? I've never been to Brooklyn other than driven through it, so I personally have no idea if areas outside Manhattan have all the liveliness now.

 

[Jonny5]

Has Manhattan become too gentrified? I've never been to Brooklyn other than driven through it, so I personally have no idea if areas outside Manhattan have all the liveliness now.

You're about a decade too late. At this point the question is if Brooklyn is too gentrified and Queens is the new frontier.

 

[vatche]

I just got back from a weekend in Chicago and what I noticed was how clean the streets are, flower beds everywhere on every street, well organized boulevards, no homeless, no squeegy boys, nicely decorated beautifully fenced sidewalk restos. Gardens and gardens all over, a ton of Midwestern tourists. The money that is made in Chicago stays in Chicago! And it goes to the beautification of the city!! Now Having said that, go a few blocks west and things rnt as pretty. They r actually shitty. Went to 2 nice restos and guess what??? They weren't good. I had the same experience in ny.
They had a lot of tourist attractions though. The aquarium ( packed) navy pier ( packed) planetarium ( packed) Willis center ( packed)
a diverse architecture, not boxy buildings going up all over, and did I mention well kept flower beds all over????
I wish we could do the same thing.